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Secrets are coming out
By angelmom
10/18/2010 1:30:54 AM
Someone please tell me that this is normal because things are happening in a way I never expected.

I have said before, my husband always repented and never attended the Temple unworthy. He would have 6 mos or a year of (white knuckling) sobriety at a time. He never went beyond pn and Mast. He was honest with me about his problem.

I heald my breath thinking that this time he would overcome. How could I betray him by telling anyone? Every Slip, every relapse, the pain would come back deeper. I always forgave... That's what nice Mormon women do right? I don't know what has come over me this week. I have prayed and been to the Temple. I asked God what to do. I never heard an answer, but a chain of events has come about which is opening the truth and I can never go back and un-do what has been done. I hope this was right.

Twice today I heard something about my 15 year old son regarding drugs. I knew he did some pot. He admitted it to me a while back. I was hoping it was behind him but inside me I knew it was not. When the text came I became very upset. I am done with the lies, the protecting all of the addicts in my life. I never planned on this, but I told my son about his Dad. He already knew about his brother. It seems that all of my sadness and years of crying was chalked up to oh, mom's sad about the broken son. I am sad about a lot of things, he was just one of them and the list is growing by the minute it seams. My other son heard some of what was being said, and now he knows.

My husband just boarded a flight and I told him what was unfolding. He is not happy. He said that next time he wants to do this with me. I had no right to do this without him. I never intended to do any of this. It is all happening. I am praying. I hope to God that I did not a mistake. I feel relief, and complete sadness at the same time. My youngest does not know and does not need to know. Too young.

My 15 year old is floored. I expect the fallout to come in the coming days.
I believe now that my 15 year old is an addict. he keeps going back to the same kids and they are now giving him oxycotton.

I believe that this is partially the result of having the priesthood actively practiced SOMETIMES in our home. My husband likes to point to the times that he was clean. I was following the spirit during the times of being clean. I think that is like only locking the doors sometimes and on the night they were unlocked, someone came in and hurt your family.

My family is broken. I pray that with the truth, we can heal. I have no idea where we go from here.

There you have it. I thought I was healing and now things are so much worse.
For those men with little children, don't count your blessings to soon. We were looked at as the perfect family for years. My children all have a testimony and would bear it every fast Sunday. That all stopped and reality set in. You can have all of the guns in the world, but your family will never be protected when the priesthood is only practiced sometimes. Really, what does that mean??? sometimes.

My husband never knew that looking at his first booboo mama on the internet would lead to the utter distruction of his family. But, it is tooo late for that now isn't it?

I am grateful for the Savior. I will need him now more than ever. It will take a miracle in the coming days, months, and years as we deal with a mess larger than I ever imagined.

Yes, If I thought I was broken before, I had no idea.


THESE SECRETS ARE KILLING ME!!!! I need to heal and there is no healing with these secrets.

The cat is out of the bag. I hate this more than I can say...

Angel

Comments:

Sucks    
""Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today... I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is suppose to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake." -The AA Big Book

This was what one of the facilitators lead with today at an AA meeting I went to and I thought of it as I read your post. I'm not sure you have to buy into it completely. I'm not sure I do. But I'm realizing the closer I get to it...the better off I seem. The serenity prayer is a prayer of acceptance. Good luck Angel."
posted at 01:57:42 on October 18, 2010 by They Speak
It's not as bad as you think..    
"When all the secrets come out, it is not the end of the world. It is the beginning of you refusing to lie to protect your husband anymore. Maybe you could have gone about it differently but I can totally understand that you've had enough of the lies and that is not a bad thing. Recovery is possible. It is a pretty individual thing, though. YOU can recover. YOU can refuse to be dishonest for your husband. I expected my wife to keep my secrets and back me up with my lies and I was dead wrong for it. How utterly selfish of me to ask my wife to sin to cover up my sin. How utterly selfish it was for me to cause her shame in order to hide my own. Angel, you were just fed up! Who can blame you???

Pray for your sons and turn their salvation over to God and be the example of recovery in the home. You DON'T need a worthy priesthood holder in the home to call on the powers of heaven. Good luck, Angel. Many are praying for you and your family."
posted at 05:14:20 on October 18, 2010 by Anonymous
Wow    
"Angel while this is probably hell for you and I confess I have no idea how terrible it is, I think I am reading some similarities your husband and I might share. In brief I suffer from Narcissism. Seriously, the spouse of one suffering from N gets battered and bruised emotionally why because the Narcissist is always manipulating the situation and very cleverly puts the blame on the loved one and secretly gets the loved one to believe the lies. The loved one spends years confused, thinking something is wrong with her. This is all unconscious stuff that I did but the results pretty much are identical to yours. If my kids would be 15 by now they would be the biggest wrecks emotionally. I just got my diagnosis this last Friday and yes it has sent shockwaves throughout my soul. I am not sure I trust myself anymore. I just don't know what is true about what I am thinking. When my wife and I disagree, I just find it hard to point any fingers at her because I now know I abnormally transfer blame to her especially if I am to blame. Could this be what your husband is doing?

Why is he so upset? Why make it sound like you are in the wrong by telling your children the truth? Does that not just sound so darn rediculous? If he was so concerned about the welfare fo you and the children the fact is that he would have told them himself long ago but he just is not there yet by the sounds of things. DON'T FEEL GUILTY AT ALL, THAT IS WHAT US ADDICTS ARE GOOD AT MAKING OUR LOVED ONES TAKE THE BLAME WHILE WE GET OFF SCOTT FREE. It is not right Angel.

Your husband really believes he was clean, that he was worthy of the priesthood and your love. So did I, I really believed those things but the truth now is far from those lies. Lies lies lies. I was never in a million years worthy of my wifes love. I admit that as much as I admit I was an addict. I was not clean no matter how long I could manage to white knuckle it. The greatest part of my clean time was when I was a Bishop, and while I did not look at acutal stuff, I was not clean within. I can admit that too now. I can also admit that I was not a righteous priesthood holder in the home. If that be true too then I was not a righteous prietshood holder at church, if I cannot walk straight in private settings then how can I claim cleanliness in the public eye. Makes no sense but then what addict does make sense?

The crap has hit the fan and naturally a whole lot of people will be affected but you Angel are in control and so is the Lord. Your husband seems out of control and that will be manifested more than ever when the sons ask the hard questions. He needs help but only when he reaches rock bottom will he beg for it.

Don't take the crap heading your way. You must know it will come in buckets full."
posted at 08:33:47 on October 18, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Confused    
"I am not sure if my husband is a Narcissist. I never thought of him that way. I think he had plan in his mind of how it was going to play out. I did too for that matter. Last night was not according to plan. Either was my bring up separation.

He says that he des not blame me at all. He knows he screwed up! He use to blame me in the beginning of our marriage.

He believed that he was clean because according to how the rules work, when he slipped, he went to the bishop. The Bishop would say wait a week or two and then go back to the temple and he would. We never knew this as an addiction until this year. Because the Bishop pronounced him clean, mine and his belief was that he was clean.

He was always generally remorseful and confessed each time. I believed he was clean, but I was still wounded and still am. I thought I was on the road to recovery, but I obviously fell backward.

He has tried not to place blame on me. Sometimes he says stuff like what I had written above, but usually he ends with saying, "I caused this". If anything he lives in self pity and sadness.

It is so hard to be in this position because he ever pretended to be a righteous man. When he was in slip or relapse, he would not attend the Temple or bless his children. I know he put himself in pain and that pain was returned to us as anger. That is when he would become rude, unkind, and judgmental.

Is this how you were?

I have always been very forgiving right away. I felt the forgiveness for him each time, but this time a switch went off and I am confused if this was brought on by God or the Devil.

Generally speaking he was not always on me about my mistakes. If anything I have been critical of his unkind behavior toward me and the kids. We always felt like we were not enough.

Then again, he adored me and put me first in his life in so many ways. Was I thursty?, did I need a blanket? When it came to food he always made sure that I was taken care of first.

Much I read about addicts, I did not see in him, but some of it I did. I was never thinking he was looking at other women. I would have considered it normal if he had. he never crossed a low level line when viewing porn. He had never been to the places I have heard other men had been. I did not consider him a liar.

Nevertheless, it is out.Older son was told in February as we are working to help him, Anoher adult son took it well (considering) the 15 year old is devestated.

When was the right time to bring it out? I guess it was last night.

I think the fact of him revisiting the sin, heaped more judgement upon him because he was told he was clean, and then went back. Is that how it works?

Angel"
posted at 11:33:39 on October 18, 2010 by angelmom
Yes that is how I was in many ways    
"I am no expert about the inticacies about N and I will not say he has the disorder but he is definately showing some signs. Don't take it from me, the only reason I pointed N out is because that is what we do well, we make others feel like they are to blame for problems in the relationship. I may not say this all the time that my wife is to blame but I really think it often. My wife will tell you I came across as humble, everyone who knew me will tell you that because the show must go on to protect the fearful and insecure self inside the protected wall. I am not sure he has NPD because he seems to have a sensitive side where he can be emotionally intimate with you and take the blame, I cannot, it is so hard, I have to keep others at bay emotionally so that the show can carry on playing. I can however take the blame and say sorry but deep down inside the belief is strong that it takes 2 to tango and as long as that is possible blame must be pointed out to the other party.

Judgemental and frustrated at criticism yes 100% that was me. It needs to be that way to safeguard the vulnerability. Then again who is not judgemental and frustrated at critics?

He probably is not NPD but he might display these traits at times to protect himself. If you are confused at first go with your heart, it may be telling you it is not NPD but it could be some other psych problem. Its OK to admit there are a few screws lose that need tightening. My wife is a classic codependent because I am a classic N. I caused this to happen to her. I abused her emotionally through neglect and lies.

I probably should not have written about N but it is hard because that is all i see now N all over the darn place. Reality is a new place in the mind but that sets my loved ones free. They are free from the unknown mental processes that have controlled periods of their lives for so long.


Just giving you my perspective that seems to share a few parallels with yours.
Then again don't read into much because everyone needs a fine tuning every now and then. Some however need a complete overhaul.

God bless"
posted at 11:56:27 on October 18, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Hmmmm    
"I'm not sure that I agree that your son's drug use is directly related to having the priesthood in your home only sometimes. Your son has used his agency for some bad choices. I don't know that it's fair to pin every bad thing that happens in your life on your husband's addiction. Perhaps your son's choice of peers has more to do with it since he didn't even know about his father's problems. Just a thought."
posted at 14:25:39 on October 18, 2010 by Anonymous
I understand and thanks    
"So much of what you said is true. Of course I cannot say what goes on thru his head. He too kept people at an emotional distance. In the past couple years he has brought me closer in. I was loving and accepting, forgiving, and inspired. I know he admired that. Not so sure of his admiration at this point. No more Mrs. Nice guy. All bets are off.

It has only been in small moments that he has be able to look me in the eye when he told me he loved me or during our most intimate times. I can count on one hand how many times I have experienced that kind of pure honesty from him. I know he was ashamed.

Although he supports me in the service I do for others in the community, he seldom participated. He always had things to do. He does serve others when asked and has shown our boys a good example that way. Going out o the church or family to do that was always uncomfortable for him. Mind you, I have tried to take him t some crazy places and not everyone is comfortable serving the unsavory. Still, I always felt separate from him in that way. My service outside the church is always apart from.

We use to share close friendships and parties at our home. Not anymore. It has been years. His interactions with other men, for the most part are a “business only” relationship as he is respected for his intelligence. As far as I can see, he does not crave the spotlight.

When things are collapsing around us, he is able to work and plug ahead. Even with what is happening, he has not broken down. He stays focused. He gets quiet and sadness looms. I talk and talk, and he seldom says anything. He says he knows he caused this. I use to save him by saying that evil is all around us, but now I say yes, he did cause most of this and my co-dependent behavior caused the rest.

I believe he feels bad for hurting me. When I asked why he continues to slip again, he now says that’s' because he is an addict. Although true, although his slips are "small" in the scheme of things, I think I would be devastated if he even looked at a bathing suit ad at this point.

This whole thing has caused me to reflect on what my boundaries really are. I need to figure out what recovery looks like to me. Although I would freak out initially, I was always quick to forgive and all would be well... So I thought.

Rugga, I love you and your honest insight. I understand you seeing the N, everywhere. I feel that way about addicts. I have a friend whose husband is too sexual in his daily speak and he is as strange as the day in long. Of course I think he has a problem with porn. There are other signs as well, but who am I to say. However I still think it, so I understand.

I appreciate you candid words. I need to hear it all. I need to take it all in, pray, and allow the Lord to lead me out of this mist of darkness I find myself in. I am holding fast to the iron rod because I know where it leads.

There is a CD called recovery by Rachelle Call. It makes me weep every time I listen to it. She has a song you can listen to at no cost on her blog. http://www.rachellecall.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=110&Itemid=64 She too was where I am now.

Who knew it would take so long to get here. I wish we could have known. I wish the knowledge was available 23 years ago. There was nothing. But I thank the dear Lord we have so much now and it keeps getting better.

I don't know what happens to my family now. I am making my own plans to help my sons through divine inspiration.

I love this blog and I love all of you who care for this not so perfect stranger. It is a testimony that we are truly all connected through truth in the Gospel.

I know I am broken, but I also know who can fix me.....and I am praying for that...

Angel

BTW, Rugga... I am so happy for you in your recovery. your children are young and so long as you keep light in your home through the gospel of repentence, you will not ever need to wonder if you brought this upon your family. Please stay clean and repent oten. You are a good man."
posted at 14:33:00 on October 18, 2010 by angelmom
Anon, Son's Drug Use    
"Anon, thanks for the comments..

I know my son has agency, but I also know that we are promised certain protection when a man honors the holy priesthood. he did honor it at times, but there were holes. It was not only his sins, but mine as well.

I can make myself feel better by saying that my husband's addiction, and my co-dependency have nothing to do with it, but my heart tells me differently. I am facing the whole truth here, especially honesty with myself.

My husband's sins caused me to sin (and I didn't know I was doing it). It happens all of the time. Satan does not care how he takes us down, so long as he takes us down. The plague covering the earth in these last days is not physical as in unwanted disease, it is addiction, and it is more deadly than physical disease. Addiction kills both spirit and body.

As sin has brought us here, so can repentence save our family.

I turn to the lord and fight this with all I have and hope my husband will do the same

Angel"
posted at 15:14:33 on October 18, 2010 by angelmom
Rugga    
"Off topic, a bit...I would not diagnosis you as a "Narcissist". I just don't see it. You may have N tendencies, as ALL addicts do, but if any professional has given you a diagnosis of NPD, they are wrong in my professional opinion. I have a pretty unique and honest look into your psyhe (Just by reading your posts) and if a PsyD,Phd or an MD gave you a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder, that would worry me.

If a professional called you a narcissist, in the generic sense, that's one thing. If they have diagnosed you with NPD, that is irresponsible.

Angelmom, we all love you. We are all praying for you. There are promises made to parents about children that are sealed to them. It was probably my own mothers prayers that brought me back to the fold at the ripe old age of 30. You can't escape a mothers prayers. : ) Sooner or later, the pull of the gospel and of our Savior's Love calls you back and the call gets so loud that you can't ignore it. My mom never gave up on me. She did let me go and refused to enable my drug addiction but she never stopped putting my name in the temple and praying for me. I KNOW that it was her prayers that put into motion the miracle of recovery that eventually took hold in my life. It was HER faith that pulled me up just far enough for grace to take hold. You are just a wonderful mom and I feel for what you're going through."
posted at 17:48:29 on October 18, 2010 by Anonymous
Anon and Rugga    
"Rugga,

I agree with Anon... I have been reading your posts for a while now and would never have pegged you a narcissist. I was actually a little stunned when you said that. My hubby as well. I never thought of him that way. I know that he is a good man with a big problem. Which is effecting our family in a way I never saw coming. Please get another opinion.

Have you ever gone to Dr. Weiss website, sexaddict.com? There is a test he can have you take which tells you which type of addict you are. This guy is on the money so far in everything I have read and seen by him. This is his calling. Ask Hero, she has been through his 3 day intensive and she knows....

Anon again,

You touched my heart in a way that spoke complete truth to me. I know that I cannot fix my addicts, but I know that I do have power. I do not feel it today, but I believe every word you sent my direction....GOD BLESS YOU, Angels were put in my path today and you were one of them."
posted at 18:38:08 on October 18, 2010 by angelmom
I jumped the gun a bit    
"Sorry I just went and checked the facts. I assumed NPD and N were the same thing, not so as you guys have pointed out. I have not been told I have NPD but I have been told I have a narcissism problem. That is ok I have no problem with it because I feel free in so many ways. I have a peace within me that says this is true, I feel liberated.

You guys must remember that my writing on this site has been done without feeding my old addiction and through progressive therapy. So you guys have come to know me as the real guy. You never came across the show guy I referred to above. I think a miracle has taken place in my life that I can never explain. I am really such a different person as the savior has healed me in so many ways. It is like night and day. I can see the difference.
It all adds up now in he big scheme of things and that is liberating in and of itself.
Angel, all I want to say really is don't take anymore crap from anyone in your home, not even the dog and cat. I guess I am so candid now because I see this whole episode in my life for what it really is."
posted at 21:31:58 on October 18, 2010 by ruggaexpat
I have a narcissism problem, too. Just glad you don't have that nasty diagnosis    
"Angelmom, How are you today? Sometimes 24 hours makes a difference. You have been an angel to me, too. You've always had such strength and humility. I hope you treat yourself well, today. Go have lunch with a friend, or something else to be kind to yourself. Sometimes, we just need to treat ourselves to gain some perspective. : )

The 3 C's I learned in Alanon:
I didn't CAUSE this addiction. I can't CONTROL this addiction and I can't CURE it.

I was driven to Alanon by being married to an alcoholic. So many ultimatums and arguments. (I had been in recovery several years so, of course, I knew exactly what she needed to do to get sober and she WANTED to get sober... So WHY WASN'T IT WORKING ??? In hindsight, it WAS working, just not on my timetable. It was so difficult to get on with my life when my future revolved around her. I eventually had to let go for my own sanity. I had to work the Steps all over again but this time from the loved ones point of view. The men in Alanon, and they're not easy to come by in my area, saved my butt just as much as my AA sponsor had saved me decade earlier from my own alcoholism.
I swear, when I made my recovery from the codependency my priority, she seemed to get better. Not at first, though. She thought I was going to Alanon to spite her and I secretly think she resented not being the center of all my attention anymore. But I think it is really hard for an addict to watch their spouse recover and stay right where they're at, spiritually. At first, she seemed to sulk but to my surprise, and all by herself (tongue in cheek), she went to AA, got a sponsor, got sober, and miracle of ALL miracles, joined the church. There is so much hope. But, yes, there is so much pain along the way. We need to do what we need to do for OURSELVES to recover from the codependency. (even if it IS all their fault! Ha!) I learned that this approach to recovery is NOT selfish. It is actually the UNselfish approach because it puts us within the path of grace and that can really rub off on those around us. What has always been tough for me, is comparing my marriage to others I see, especially in church. Everyone seems to be happy. Why is it so much harder for me. Years later, I sponsored a young man who admitted to me that he had the same thoughts and he had grouped my wife and I in with those he thought were "perfect". That really made me think. We DO all put on our best face on on Sundays. How do we know that everyone else ISN"T struggling just like us? A friend quoted a general authority as saying something to the effect of, "Treat everyone you meet as if they are struggling with something extremely difficult because most of the time, they are."

We care about you. I'm so glad you found the hope in byourownhero's recent passage. She is experiencing one of those beautiful miracles! This is how we do it. We help eachother when we're sick and hopefully we're not all sick on the same day! :) I hope you are feeling better real soon."
posted at 10:37:43 on October 19, 2010 by Anonymous
Priesthood    
"I don't think the problems in your family are all about not having the priesthood practiced all the time. I'm sure having it all the time would have helped, but it isn't a guarantee of not having these problems, and isn't the cause of having them. If not having the priesthood in the home were the cause of these problems, my kids would be in trouble since I'm a single mom. I think my boys and I would benefit from having the priesthood in our home (and I pray that someday we will), but I don't believe we're doomed because of the lack of it. I think that my oldest has suffered some from my addiction because of the way my addiction has impacted me and especially my mood and self esteem when I'm acting out.

I'm sorry your are struggling. I know it is hard to be married to an addict (I've been married to 2 of them). Being divorced and and a single mom isn't easy either and has its own set of impacts on children, so think carefully before you make any decisions about separation or divorce. I didn't leave either of mine because of their addictions, there were other problems with both relationships.

Hang in there. Do what you need to do for yourself and your children. I pray that your husband will have success in sobriety and that things will get better for you and your children."
posted at 00:46:50 on October 21, 2010 by dstanley
Dear DStanley    
"Because I have been a little out of my mind lately, I may not be expressing myself in a way which is understood by some who read my post.

My comments about the priesthood were not meant to make a blanket statement about others not having it in their homes; it was about my personal situation. My husband's p-blessing makes specific reference to the priesthood and protection for our family. Of course neither one of us ever understood it at the time. We thought it meant something else.

The gravity of what is happening is hitting my husband hard, and it is all making perfect sense now. Repentance was made very easy for him by many and especially by me. We did not understand this to be an addiction until this year; nevertheless, he became lazy in his repentance and brought this great evil upon our home.

A man who keeps the priesthood properly brings great blessings to his family. It does not mean that everything is always perfect. Had my husband kept his covenants, my family would have had a husband and father who was kind and long suffering. It is not over yet, not by a long shot. I am setting boundaries now with him, which is something I have never done. I never knew I needed to, I just forgave.
My decision to consider a possible separation, was a prayerful one. I have been in the Temple and on my knees looking for peace and answers.
Please understand, I never have or never would peg all of our problems on his addiction. I know where my actions added to his addiction and fueled the fire. I am also aware that not everything goes perfectly just because we are active church members.
What both him and I agree upon is that because of the breaking of sacred covenants and the nature of his sins, where he should have lead our family, he did not. He is great at going through the motions, but his heart was often disconnected, unkind and cold towards his family.
This is not about the blame of who did what and when. It is about responsibility of breaking sacred covenants.
Many of my friends are single moms and I have always believed that there are special blessings for single moms. I truly apologize if what I was saying about my home and my situation in any way caused you to think that I was speaking about you and yours. I would never do that.

I am finally getting honest...Honest with myself. I have kept myself so busy, that I lied to myself about what was really happening. My husband understands where I am at this point. If you have read some my earlier postings, you can see that I am in a different place now. I have made it too easy for him. I was so willing to forgive so quickly. The problem is that I was doing it at the expense of my own soul.

Bless you for hanging in there as a single mom. I look to my single mom friends as my strength and inspiration of how the Lord does compensate for the absence of the priesthood in the home.

Angel"
posted at 04:02:19 on October 21, 2010 by angelmom
A new place    
"Angel,

I just want to add quickly that you are definately in a new place. I really think you are taking this latest experience in your life so smartly. There is a healthy mix of rationality and emotions which will allow you to be in control of your future. The Lord must be holding your hand through these tough times. Your husband can thank his lucky stars!"
posted at 08:04:17 on October 21, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Rugga- Questions    
"Hi Rugga,

I have a few questions:

Did your wife always know?

If so did she flip out with each discovery?

Did she ask you to separate right away?

Did she set boundaries?

Is she at peace now?

What are things she did that helped you?

What are things you did to help her?

Any history you are willing to share?

Although no two situations are alike, I am searching for answers. Oh course The Temple, scriptures, and prayer are always #1. I am weighing my options and it helps to learn from someone elses experience.

Thanks,

Angel"
posted at 08:37:34 on October 21, 2010 by angelmom
Rugga- Questions    
"Hi Rugga,

I have a few questions:

Did your wife always know?

If so did she flip out with each discovery?

Did she ask you to separate right away?

Did she set boundaries?

Is she at peace now?

What are things she did that helped you?

What are things you did to help her?

Any history you are willing to share?

Although no two situations are alike, I am searching for answers. Oh course The Temple, scriptures, and prayer are always #1. I am weighing my options and it helps to learn from someone elses experience.

Thanks,

Angel"
posted at 09:54:20 on October 21, 2010 by angelmom
New Book    
"Have you read FROM HEARTACHE TO HEALING by Colleen and Philip Harrison? It's co-authored and gives great perspectives from both spouses."
posted at 12:32:00 on October 21, 2010 by Anonymous
My side    
"I sincerely hope this helps and although we all have experienced different mixes of emotions, rationality, behaviours and values, I think my wifes way of handling things was inspired of God for me.

1) My wife had no idea until 10 months ago.

2) If I have to even slip no matter how minute the slip, it is OVER AND FINISHED forever. I must add I am happy with this boundary. I want her to be happy, to feel loved and have HER dreams made alive each day. I cannot do that dabbling in filth, just cannot and this is the major boundary set, we both understand it clearly. I have all the tools to dig myself out of the mess - NO excuse.

3) YES she did, only the therapist, Bishop and a few other family members through patience and love persuaded her to do otherwise. She really wanted out, no jokes, no games, no ifs and no buts. It was over and part of her still wants it over. I understand that side of her and I think perhapse I would have done the same in her shoes.

4) Yes a big one (No more porn and anything associated with it). It is clearly defined as no lust at all. It is her and no one else in thought, word and deed. It is so well understood that if I happen to slip, I do not have to tell her, I move out immediately. No media at all other than church, family, work and school. Meaning more specifically, no news, sports, social sites like facebook, youtube, nothing, NADA. In the car only church music, no TV at all, we don't have a connection anymore. That is the media thing. There is covernant Eyes on Laptop (she is free to check it anytime).
Will to go to weekly meetings until the end of time.
Might say that is a hell of a lot so far not near, I have a book to write of boundaries:
For family and children:
have a spiritual structure in place (prayers, FHE, scriptures etc.)
Dad time with girls (just losing myself playing with them and soaking in fun time) - This is important my wife will not stay with a man who cannot connect with the children and be THERE with them. This is a big part of my recovery, it consumes my every thought - emotional maturity.
Oh before I forget, no internet at night when all are sleeping.
If there are more I forgot to mention I will put them up on the thread.

5) I am not sure but I can say this, she is a new person. She is so much more at peace than she was a month or 2 ago. I hope I can speak acurately for her. Her peace seems to be coming from the fact that she knows I am clean, she can see it now. She still hates the fact that she is stuck with a husband who lied and sinned so badly and by so doing destroyed what she thought were her secure dreams. She gets reminded here and there about the past and it hurts her so badly. She gets angry but it does not last days, we make up and can discuss the issues without contention, a big victory for us against Satan now. The home is much less consumed by contention.
I think she needs more peace and it will come as time takes its place and I put her and the girls first above myself.

6) You may not liek this but without doubt was so hard on the sin. She was naturally hard on me too but ZERO tollerance helps. Then in the beginning she got some books (he restoreth my soul, the drug of the new millenium, website help etc. She was proactive not to initially help me but protect her KIDS. The mother bear took over and she was ferocious in protecting her little ones. To hell with dad kind of mentality. She discovered she was codependent - so got books and applied the recommendations - she detached completely. I felt so alone and still do but it is a good alone knowing that she has more chance for recovery and peace. I love her for having the strength to do this and make those sorts of choices. She detached to help herself but it helped me more I think. It was critical. She also always wanted to know the truth no matter how harsh the pain. How did this help me well it helped me confess everything. It helped me be true to her and have no secrets left inside. It was the real beginning of letting her finally see the real me and work to better me. She has been amazing throughout, tough on me but amazing - love her to bits for all of it.

7) OK honestly I wish I could say more than I can. I am not sure I have done enough so far. So much pain caused can never be made up by me in he form of my help. I think I helped her by agreeing to speak to anyone she wanted to even if it meant exposing me. It hurt so bad to know others know about my addiction but the more people that knew the more it was less than a secret and there is always strength in numbers. She has had shoulders to cry on and fantastic support. I would say beginning the repentance process by telling her first is a big help. It ended there, that was the true beginning for peace and happiness. No steps and then confess, just got the guts from heaven and went for it. That gave her the truth. I was completely honest with her, she knows everything. I gave her space when she needed it, lived in the basement for months and graduated to the couch upstairs. Any more I will include them as I think of them. In general I think I was sincere in involving her in my recovery, she knew my ups and downs. I spoke to her and kept the communication lines open all the time, even for shouting matches.

8) I have written a great deal about the past in my blogs here. Let me know what sort of details will help and I will gladly write.

Thanks for those questions, it has helped me think a lot."
posted at 15:41:58 on October 21, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Ruggaexpat    
"Do you mind me asking what books your wife used for the codependency? That is one of my struggles and I wanted to see what helped her and see if it could help me.."
posted at 15:51:02 on October 21, 2010 by britta
Co dependent no more    
"Thats the title by melody beattie.
more than 5 million copies sold. Not that that means much these days is Oprah Winfrey is marketing it through her sales machine.

I have never read it but the results were good for my wife.

Good luck"
posted at 16:15:28 on October 21, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Not Taking It Personally    
"I wasn't at all offended by what you said. I just hoped that you weren't considering separation because of the relapse alone. Maybe it's because I'm an addict also, or because I've only ever been married to an addict, but I'd rather be married to an addict who is working his recovery than be single. I think my boys would be better off with a dad working his recovery then none at all. I think my kids are better off with me than without me. I totally get though that there are other factors. I left my second husband because he had other issues he was unwilling to acknowledge and work on (although I later found out he had an affair). I eventually decided that my son, my unborn son, and I were better off without him than with him. I know that it is a hard decision to make, and I'm glad you're making it with a lot of prayer. My 2nd husband and I never really discussed my boundaries, but in my mind he needed to be working his recovery. I didn't have a no slips policy, but I expected him to be trying his best and I expected him to be honest with me. I guess because I understand that a lot of recoveries involve slips. I would never leave someone over a slip with pn or mb, but that's just me. Everyone has to do what they feel is right in their situation."
posted at 18:10:28 on October 21, 2010 by dstanley
just my experience    
"I think that I deserved a husband who was clean and true and my kids desearved that as well. I knew and trusted that I could provide on my own a better environment, so I was ready to draw the line!! No porn at all in my house and in my life or the children's life for as long as I was alive. And the attitude I think helped my husband, he needed a strong motivation and needed to make a choice once and for all. With all the tools and help from the 12 steps, the therapist, the books, sponsor, etc... and ME!! All the blocks on all the computers, there was really no excuse!!!! If he slips, it is because he wants to, he knows his triggers, knows how to avoid all the thoughts, has gone to the therapists and has worked trought all the underlying reasons for his addiction, has been given training for new coping skills,etc.... So he has his group, his therapist, sponsor, bishop, family.. and me to call before anything happens!!! Like I mentionned before, we have like rugga'S family, gotten rid of all media!!! ALL OF IT!! NO TV, even for the kids!!! Just dvds chosen by mom!!!! (he doens't even go to a video store, a book store and rarely the mall). This strategy has worked for us and I find that I had to take a strong stand. NO EVIL IN MY HOME!!!!! And it all went from there.. I did not want any filth for me of the kids and I was willing to do it for myself too (not even radio in my car, just classical music). Anyways, when I set that boundary, I knew that we had all the tools and it was something possible for him, we read and checked with the therapist, and I was ready to work to fight off all the filth away from my home. He never ever misses a meeting and works hard on the steps, that was a big condition, I will not stay if he is not ready and willing to fight the evil with everything he's got!!!! I think there is no excuse for not doing something that will save not only your family but your own soul, something that is so simple as seating and reading and doing the steps. It's not like Climbing the everest, anyone can do it, if they want to!!!! The real question is are they too confortable, do they really wnat to change? Are they ready to pay the price to get there???? If not, why must I stay and endure that??
Working on my own recovery has helped me so much, I realise I am of great infinite worth, and that is not the kind of life my Father in heaven wants me to have!! Whatever happens, he will be by my side and will help and sustein me. I realised also, through all those years, that I practically lived as if I was single, because I got most of the revelations and made almost all the decisions, I WAS LEADING the family, he was just there!!! I know with organisation, with suport, I can make it. He got so scared when he realised this. And he got motivated big time to work hard on his recovery!!! It was clear, I desearved more , the kids deserved more and we were going to get it, from him or from somewhere or someone else!!!!
Dear sister Angel, this year the hardest of my life, the words of sister Beck from the april conf have often come to my mind, when she urged us sisters to fight for our homes!!! To fight with everything we've got!!! If the patriarch does not reform and change, and continues to want to be whoremongers even with all the tools, then I sister in Zion will leave him on that road where he wants to stay and with the help of God, push my cart and my kids to Zion!!!!I will not sit behind with him!!!!
I know every situation is different and I know every recovery is different. This is just my experience. "
posted at 22:45:27 on October 21, 2010 by crushed
Lots of exclamation marks...    
"How is all that working for you? Are you at peace? Is all of YOUR will strong enough to beat his disease?"
posted at 01:05:06 on October 22, 2010 by Anonymous
Crushed    
"Thanks for telling it like it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
posted at 01:15:16 on October 22, 2010 by BYOUROWNHERO
Thanks Crushed    
"Got me to do a bit of thinking.
You are right, if the priesthood holder does not shape up in leading, then it will fall on the Mother to receive revelation for the family."
posted at 07:25:55 on October 22, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Crushed    
"I'm not against giving your husband some motivation borne of charity and love (the kind the Lord and his Church give us...even when they threaten to cut us off). However, I hope you aren't trying to change your husband and overcome his sin for him. He has his battle, and you have yours.

Love,"
posted at 10:54:53 on October 22, 2010 by BeClean
There was only ONE perfect man....    
"Thank you anonymous!!! I agree with you completely.

There is a fine line here and we're playing very close to it. It's reminding me of a plan that has already been presented and rejected by 2/3 of God's children. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be boundaries but is there room for agency? You may be able to control the environment in your home and what is brought into your home but all of your control will not change another person's thoughts. You will not beat your husband's addiction. He is the only one that can choose that path. You can love, encourage and support him, but it will be his decision. Did our Savior choose to love the woman taken in sin conditionally? He was seen eating with Publicans and sinners. He stated the reason he hung out with sinners is because the whole have no need of a physician. Are we better than He? Can't we learn by His example to love the sinner unconditionally? People followed Him because they felt His love and power. They wanted to be with Him and like Him. As we follow Him, the same will happen to us. It will be a natural result of us choosing to follow His example. That doesn't mean there won't be mistakes. All of these changes take place in the heart. The choice to give our heart to the Savior is personal and individual.

I used to wonder why I was chosen for this challenge in life. I live the commandments easily. It's never been difficult for me when faced with a temptation to try it just once. And yet, I received an undeniable revelation that I am indeed married to the right man. He came with an addiction I didn't know about. I was mad at God for YEARS because I felt tricked. This was not the life I signed up for. Why didn't he give me a man just like me??? Well, mostly because that's not His plan. Now I feel so blessed for having my husband in my life. I have experienced unexpressable pain. I have spent years in a black hole in my mind...a prison of my own making because of the intense pain in my marriage. I have an undeniable testimony of the Atonement now. I wouldn't have that if I hadn't had my husband. I have a testimony of the scriptures because I have searched them for answers to my challenges. I know God comes when I ask in faith. I know He helps me while I'm in the process of being stretched in uncomfortable directions. That is His plan for me!! I chose this, I know I did! I know that I loved my husband so much that I agreed to come to earth to be with him during this last and most evil dispensation of all time to help him with this evil plague. I have gratitude for what I have learned. I do wish the journey could have been one or two decades instead of three but I wasn't put in charge of the timing. If I would have, I would have had it go away after the first experience. I'm wimpy like that. My Father knew what could become of us when we finally came out of our wilderness. It was 10 years sooner than the Israelites! I'm grateful!!

In the book, "Change Your Questions Change Your Life" by Wendy Watson Nelson, she has a couple quotes I'd like to share.

To what did I agree in the premortal world that my Heavenly Father is honoring and is therefore unable to respond to my present request? What mission were you given to accomplish while you are living here on earth?

What difference would it make in our lives if we were to look at every ability and every talent, every challenging and grueling obstacle, as having a premortal origin?

It made me stop and think about my life. And one last quote:

If I really were to remember that there is power in the Atonement for me-- What questions would I stop asking? What questions would I start asking? How would my life be different?

As I attended my daughter's wedding in March, I had 5 of my 6 children there in the temple. The youngest is still too young to be there. I was there with my worthy husband. Had I chosen to leave him, what a different day that would have been for us. Instead there was nothing awkward or uncomfortable. There wasn't a second wife on his arm. He wouldn't have a challenge replacing me, but I know that I could never replace him. Nobody would ever love my family the same way their father does. Again, I'm grateful!

Sisters, whatever you're called to go through. However long and gruesome your wilderness is, the plan is to get back there together.

I've seen many sisters in my groups that have chosen to leave their husbands. MOST of them wish that they'd tried a little harder and a little longer than they did. It's worse with their second or third husband than it ever was with the first. One sister cried that she misses him every day. He was her high school sweetheart, she waited for him during his mission. She went through medical school and they had four beautiful children. She left him because of his porn addiction. What she has now is much worse and she mourns for her loss daily. There are so many stories just like hers. They are just like ours, yours and mine. We've been given resources and guidance and there are times when it doesn't work out. Healing for both spouses takes time. Be gentle."
posted at 11:40:41 on October 22, 2010 by SEEINGLIGHT
Angel,    
"I think we are guided as to when we are to move forward, with or without our spouse.
Boundaries are practiced at all levels of life. Even the church does it, not in hopes to lose someone but because there are natural consequences and the work must go forward and the spirit must accompany us at all times, to succeed. Families, at some point, have to, as well, don't you think?

Angel, I know you will be inspired to do what is truly best for you AND your family. And who's to say they aren't one in the same? You will know what to do, staying or moving forward.

And Crushed, you have set your boundaries. Thank you for sharing them! Boundaries create a space or small environment that we can hopefully count on, for our own healing. Whatever we need to do to heal properly ."
posted at 11:48:45 on October 22, 2010 by enough
I can see I've raised some good questions    
"The biggest lesson learnt out of all of this is I CAN NOT CONTROL ANYONE!!!!! I AM POWERLESS OVER HIS ADDICTION' ACTIONS, choices, etc... I am even powerless over my own reactions and feelings!!!!!! HIs battle is his and I will not fight it for him at all. I have got enough of my own battles against my own reactions, feelings, pain, etc... That is extremely clear.!!! However, I needed some boundaries in order to feel safe and in order to feel like the house was a safe place for my kids!!!!! I DO NOT FEEL SAFE KNOWING THAT THERE IS FILTH IN MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In this I could act to provide as much as I could a safe environment free of porn in all forms from the house!!! Incidentally, my attitude helped him A LOT (according to him). But it was always more about ME and the KIDS, then it is about him. And it really helped me feel safer in my own house and feel like my kids were safe. It really has brought more peace in the home. I am so conscient that I can never change him or anyone!!! He has his choice!!! But it was about me feeling safe, feeling like I was worth it and my kids too, our needs for a safe environment came before!! That was my motivation!!!! I think by sustaining him through making time for him to work on his steps, go the meetings, listening to him is showing charity. I do not think that allowing porn in my house is showisng charity!!!! Be clean, it was not about giving him a motivation, it was about making sure that I and the kids had a chance to make it to the Lord's kingdom no matter what he chose. That is how I saw it and I prayed a lot, and I know that that is what my family needed and that the Lord wanted him to make a choice once and for all. I am at peace with all the decisions I have made so far, I know they were inspired!!!!! It gave all of us (those boundaries) a foundation from where to start our recoveries!!!! There is so much to work on on my side that I can not spend any mental energy being worried about hir recovery!!!! If he wants to go and do porn, that is his problem, but not in my house and not with me!!!! So most of my actions, were not borne out of charity nor out of trying to control him, they were born out of detaching from him and his addiction, working on my recovery and taking care of myself and the kids. I just needed some boundaries!!! But I 've got to say, it is also not a decisions I made alone, some like getting rid of the TV, he even made. He realises the danger he has put his family into and wants now to also make sure we are in a safe environment. The beauty of it, is when I put the needs of the family first above his (his needs always used to come fist and I've been so codependent all these years unknowingly), it helped him as well. When I decided I was worth it, everything changed!!!! I know I am of worthh and desearved so much, and that is also one of the biggest realization of this mess. Before I set an ultimatum like no porn at all, I had searched and prayed, we had gone to therapist, read books , prayed, etc.... I knew and felt it was fair and it was just. He knew too and felt it was fair, it was doable, and it'S been for him so far. In all of this, I know that it is not about him, more than it is about me, progressing, learning to love myself, and others as well. I see him more as a child of God than I ever did before, because I see myself as a daughter of our father in heaven. I know there is so much progression for me to do, I have to work so hard, the past still hurts me so much, the relationship and trust has been destroyed, I still need to work so hard so I can heal..... this is just the begginning of the journey, I know it is, a journey that leads me to my saviour......
thanks for asking"
posted at 11:50:49 on October 22, 2010 by crushed
Whose problem is it?    
"This is what is so confusing to me…His problem, my problem…or our problem? Sometimes we are told to look at it as his problem, nothing we can say or do can cause it or solve it. Then at other times we as loved ones are told to think of it as “our problem” as a couple. My husband says he would be happy if I was who I used to be before this mess. He tells me he would be “flying high”, content and happy with his life. But reality is I when I was the person he says he wants me to be…I got betrayed by him. So I really don’t feel I have much power in this.

What works for Crushed’s husband, and for Rugga’s situation…isn’t a reality for me. I cannot put restrictions on my husband…his personality would reject that big time. And my personality just couldn’t carry all that pressure. But man, if it works for them…keep it up! I wish I was the strong woman Crushed is, I don’t feel like I could do it all. Crushed...I look up to you, thank you for your strength! If things go south, I would have to rely on my Dad for support (emotional support, not financial), I need a strong man (preferably one that holds and honors his priesthood) I am a personality that needs direction…my husband tells me to buck up and sometimes that has worked for me. At times my husband expects too much from me, but I am trying so hard to meet his expectations. He is the leader in our home…I still look to him to guide us. It might just be a personality thing…I dunno.

I used to look at marriage as 2 people becoming 1….In every sense. I thought we were of one heart and one mind. So this “wake-up call” I’ve had is so confusing. "
posted at 11:53:39 on October 22, 2010 by summer
I can see I've raised some good questions    
"The biggest lesson learnt out of all of this is I CAN NOT CONTROL ANYONE!!!!! I AM POWERLESS OVER HIS ADDICTION' ACTIONS, choices, etc... I am even powerless over my own reactions and feelings!!!!!! HIs battle is his and I will not fight it for him at all. I have got enough of my own battles against my own reactions, feelings, pain, etc... That is extremely clear.!!! However, I needed some boundaries in order to feel safe and in order to feel like the house was a safe place for my kids!!!!! I DO NOT FEEL SAFE KNOWING THAT THERE IS FILTH IN MY HOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In this I could act to provide as much as I could a safe environment free of porn in all forms from the house!!! Incidentally, my attitude helped him A LOT (according to him). But it was always more about ME and the KIDS, then it is about him. And it really helped me feel safer in my own house and feel like my kids were safe. It really has brought more peace in the home. I am so conscient that I can never change him or anyone!!! He has his choice!!! But it was about me feeling safe, feeling like I was worth it and my kids too, our needs for a safe environment came before!! That was my motivation!!!! I think by sustaining him through making time for him to work on his steps, go the meetings, listening to him is showing charity. I do not think that allowing porn in my house is showisng charity!!!! Be clean, it was not about giving him a motivation, it was about making sure that I and the kids had a chance to make it to the Lord's kingdom no matter what he chose. That is how I saw it and I prayed a lot, and I know that that is what my family needed and that the Lord wanted him to make a choice once and for all. I am at peace with all the decisions I have made so far, I know they were inspired!!!!! It gave all of us (those boundaries) a foundation from where to start our recoveries!!!! There is so much to work on on my side that I can not spend any mental energy being worried about hir recovery!!!! If he wants to go and do porn, that is his problem, but not in my house and not with me!!!! So most of my actions, were not borne out of charity nor out of trying to control him, they were born out of detaching from him and his addiction, working on my recovery and taking care of myself and the kids. I just needed some boundaries!!! But I 've got to say, it is also not a decisions I made alone, some like getting rid of the TV, he even made. He realises the danger he has put his family into and wants now to also make sure we are in a safe environment. The beauty of it, is when I put the needs of the family first above his (his needs always used to come fist and I've been so codependent all these years unknowingly), it helped him as well. When I decided I was worth it, everything changed!!!! I know I am of worthh and desearved so much, and that is also one of the biggest realization of this mess. Before I set an ultimatum like no porn at all, I had searched and prayed, we had gone to therapist, read books , prayed, etc.... I knew and felt it was fair and it was just. He knew too and felt it was fair, it was doable, and it'S been for him so far. In all of this, I know that it is not about him, more than it is about me, progressing, learning to love myself, and others as well. I see him more as a child of God than I ever did before, because I see myself as a daughter of our father in heaven. I know there is so much progression for me to do, I have to work so hard, the past still hurts me so much, the relationship and trust has been destroyed, I still need to work so hard so I can heal..... this is just the begginning of the journey, I know it is, a journey that leads me to my saviour......
thanks for asking"
posted at 12:17:36 on October 22, 2010 by crushed
Summer...    
"It is confusing. It is 2 people becoming 1. It is also an individual journey. The addiction part of it is individual. You will develop your own relationship with the Savior through this process. Your husband will do the same. I guess it's easier to think of it in terms of triangles. The first would be with God at the Head and then you and your husband. The triangle is completed when all 3 are present in your marriage. Your marriage also will have a stability triangle. It involves your spiritual, emotional and physical health. When one side of any triangle is lacking, there is a weakness that needs to be strengthened. That triangle will be present as a couple and as an individual. What you will work on during the healing process will be largely individual. You will develop a relationship with your Savior that will lead you to lean on Him. You will be a strength and support to your husband, but he will do his own recovering. When you are stronger individually you will be stronger together. You will learn to let go and let God. I'm going to post something I read yesterday about that. It will have the same title.

Even if you don't feel like you're growing and learning, just keep reading your recovery materials. It will come."
posted at 12:29:55 on October 22, 2010 by SEEINGLIGHT
Wow this place is heating up in a good way    
"It has been a while where I have relished participating in a discussion here.

Crushed I relate big time. Love those exclamation marks. My wife like you has detatched and I think that is critical especially if the loved one feels trapped in this aweful scenario. I like what you say there it is a journey. I have learned a great deal from you.

Hey Summer long time no read. I can say that I do my work on my own, she does her work on her own and we come together to teach each other about what we need and learn as much as we can from past mistakes. The only thing we do together really in recovery form is go to the therapist together (he won't see us seperate) and meetings. That is it and I can tell you we have had some real heated arguments on the way home and to those mutual inclusive events. It is our problem, we work it out together with a goal to stay within the boundaries we have set, that is the together part. The individual work involves me and the Lord and his spirit working it out. It is a true litmus test for me, if I cannot do this alone and always depend on my wife for motivation I cannot own this problem. She does not own the problem I do but she has paid for it BIG TIME but it is not her problem (the addiction and all its effects).

SL I like what you said, I am confident no one is divorcing anytime soon. In my case I feel as free as a bird in the sky. My family boundaries were set as that a family (family governing policy). I would go so far as say that they are engraved on my heart now and they are my protection. I was listening to Elder Cook last night in his conference address again while washing dishes (I must add I love washing the dishes now). He said that our homes need to be as those in London bombing raids in WW2. The lights must go out at night for protection from enemy bombing. Well That was a clear policy that every home adhered to for protection, a real boundary. our home has done the same spiritually, just as crushed seems to have done.
There is so much less of a chance than before that I can slip in my home (it seems impossible actually) because there is no medium available to show anything filthy. She feels safe and I do to. Our kids can sleep feeling safe and peace can gradually be restored. To hell with all the media it is 80% rubbish anyway.

Angel and co. you do not have to do what is suggested here, work out your own salvation but I want to add this: If the Lord wants me to have a no nonsense approach to lust why should it be any different for your husbands? I read how the Lord is the same yesterday today and forever. I believe he is that. I also know from my experience that his spirit will not strive with man who cannot kick the habit. Your thoughts?

One final one as mentioned before: Don't take the crappy excuses, there are none."
posted at 13:17:03 on October 22, 2010 by ruggaexpat
My Thoughts    
"Crushed - I respect your right to do what is best in your situation. I just hope that people don't get the impression that wanting sobriety badly enough is enough to assure that there won't be any relapses. If beating addiction were just about wanting sobriety badly enough, we wouldn't need ARP and sites like this. I don't think any of us addicts want to be addicts or want to have a slip. It is great to make it as difficult as possible to slip, but there is no way to make it impossible (especially with mb). I want more than anything to stay sober. I want to be able to go to the temple some day. I want to do my grandmother's temple work. I want my kids to have the best mother they can. I don't ever want to do again anything that puts my life in danger. My addiction counselor once told me that a slip doesn't say as much about the quality of my recovery as what I do after a slip does. Sometimes we make mistakes along the way.

SeeingLight - Thanks so much for your post.

Rugga - I believe that God is with me no matter how long I struggle as long as I continue to try. Using that as an excuse to slip is not trying. I try hard not to slip (and have had two stretches of 7 months), but if it happens (and when it has) I work to turn it around and get back to sobriety (I'm back at 4 weeks).

To all the addicts here. Do your best, get all the help you can, and never give up.
To all the spouses (and I have been one - twice) here. You have to do what is right for you and your situation, but I hope that you can look at the sincerity of effort rather than the fact that there was a slip. Remember how our Heavenly Father looks at us.

I pray for all of us here."
posted at 13:49:23 on October 22, 2010 by dstanley
Summer! Cherish yourself!    
"Setting Boundaries is not about putting restrictions on your husband. It is about putting restrictions upon yourself and your life and how you will let others come into your life. How you want to live your life. How you want to be treated, loved, nurtured, communicated with. Physical boundaries, who you allow to get close to you and how.
Prayerfully discussing your life with your Heavenly Father. What you want your life to look like. How can YOU get closer to the marriage relationships YOU desire. You are his favorite daughter, He wants you to be happy and have the life He intended for you. He wants you to be all that you can be. He wants you to have JOY. He want you to fulfill your destiny.
Summer I had to do work to understand boundaries. I learned that boundaries are the basis of my recovery. I felt safe, free, and at peace, less worried and angry when I learn how important this was to my recovery. Here is just a little information abridged from Dr. Weiss book, Partners, Healing from His Addiction that helped me. I would suggest you go to his site and purchase his books. Of all the books I have read he give the best description on boundaries and how to apply them.

Partners of sex addicts rarely have healthy, intact, boundaries. Many don't realize they have a right to boundaries at all. Their boundary systems may have been damaged in childhood, through abuse and the denial of reality that comes from dysfunctional families, or they may simply be damaged by being a partner of a sex addict. Whatever the case, their physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual, and financial boundaries are sure to need repair.

While living with a sex addict, you will definitely need to learn how to have boundaries. Most
sex addicts do not have very good boundaries when it comes to their primary partner. As with any type of addiction, this disease makes a person more selfish, manipulative, and at times hostile when confronted with a boundary.
The partner of an addict needs to be fully committed to a boundary to be successful in introducing it to their addict. A boundary is basically a line you draw "in the sand" which, if violated, has consequences to those who wish to violate them. Any boundary violation can become an opportunity for standing up and strengthening yourself.
The following list illustrates different types of boundary
Physical Boundary Violations_ Somebody invading your "space"_ Being touched without being asked first
Emotional Boundary Violations _ Being told, "you shouldn't feel that way"_ Having your feelings ignored_ Being exposed to uncontrolled anger
Spiritual Boundary Violations_ Having the addict act as your parent or Higher Power
Intellectual Boundary Violations _ Being told you are crazy_ Being told you are stupid_ Having your ability to reason things out for yourself discounted _ Not being allowed to go back to school or work
Financial Boundary Violations
_ Not being allowed to earn, or spend, your own money_ Being forced to account for every cent you spend
Sexual Boundary Violations
_ Not respecting your right to say no to sex _ Touching you in a sexual way without permission
This is a very small example of boundary violations. I just wanted you to get a feel for this. Christian women as a whole do not know or even understand and definitely have not been taught about boundaries. Yet boundaries are discussed in almost every step for recovery in the 12 step for families or PASG. Basically, Summer, if you feel uneasy about any situation or circumstance sit back, think about it, you most likely need to set a boundary how you are going to deal with it again. For example if your husband does not listen when you are having a conversation with him. You can stop talking and go for a ride or walk or whatever you want to do to remove yourself from an uncomfortable and degrading situation. I hope this helps. Crushed has identified her boundaries and she understands the life she wants and is willing to live with. She is not doing it all. She is healing herself and her family."
posted at 15:16:58 on October 22, 2010 by BYOUROWNHERO
Boundaries    
"Please remember that a loving Heavenly Father set boundaries for us. He gives consequences for violating those boundaries. He removes his spirit, He does not allow you into his kingdom, He does not bless you with the blessings he had in store for you and your family, He removes His obligation to your covenants. Something to think about."
posted at 15:34:45 on October 22, 2010 by BYOUROWNHERO
Thanks!!!    
"Wow I definitely have been given some things to think about. I looked back through Rugga’s comment and Crushed comments and what they refer to as “Tools” and “Boundaries”…I called “restrictions”. My bad…I need to fix that in my own head.

SEEINGLIGHT- Thanks for your comment. Through this process I am closer to the Savior, closer than I have ever been before. But that “triangle”, is kinda messed up right now. I trust my Heavenly Father and my Savior Jesus Christ…I do not trust my husband. Life was so much easier when I was doing my part and I thought my husband was doing his part…Even though it hurts I am VERY thankful to know the truth in my life, but I ache for what I thought was. Our biggest trial right now is trust. It’s easy to love and trust like you’ll never be hurt, when you haven’t been hurt…but loving and trusting to that degree again, seems out of reach at times. I have hope…or I wouldn’t be with my husband today. But the “triangle” is invisible…you have to find a way to trust that it is there. Thank you for your encouragement…I’ll keep at it, I promise. :)

Crushed- I am amazed by your strength. I hope someday I can be at the point you are where I can see boundaries as tools, rather than restrictions. I love reading your posts and comments…you KNOW you don’t deserve this…and it is refreshing to someone like me. Thank you!!

Rugga- Hey brotha! You’re life changing improvements are awesome! I gotta get to that healthy point with my husband where we can figure out the right kind of healing for us…what we need to do separately and what we need to do together. Keep washing those dishes! :)

BYOUROWNHERO- I guess it’s obvious I got some boundary issues in my marriage…it wasn’t really that obvious to me, but you saw it. Thank you for your incite. Thank you for taking the time for me. If all goes according to plan…my husband and I are going to the support group thingy the church does on Sunday evening. Are you in charge of one of those?...I thought I read that in one of your comments, maybe I’m making that up? It will be the first time in my life I will be around other women that are in my situation…I’m a little nervous. But I gotta put myself out there, I need to go where it’s a little uncomfortable…I’m in this situation just as much as they are.

Angel- How are you? You have been in my prayers. I cherish the priesthood as you do. There was a time in my life where I knew that my husband was not a worthy priesthood holder…my Dad came to visit (we live far from family), I had the hardest time saying goodbye to him. I wanted to keep him in my home, I wanted the Priesthood to live, sleep and eat in my home. I have never cried saying goodbye to family when they have had to leave…I cried like a baby that day. My Dad at the time didn’t know of my husband’s issues, and I hid my tears from him. I know it hurts…I’m so sorry for your pain."
posted at 16:49:50 on October 22, 2010 by summer
Support group thingy!:))    
"Yes I am a missionary in the PASG'S. Pornography addiction support group for spouses. I like to call it pornography and sexual addiction group for spouses. There are many types of sexual addicts and spouses that have to recover from pain of living with a husband who is acting out or has been in the past.
Do not be worried about going to the meeting. It will be GREAT! One of the sisters in our group last week commented on how mad she was about having to go to that meeting because of her husbands addiction. She was sure she would see women who gave their husbands good excuses for acting out. She was amazed and comforted to find women just like her. Women her age, beautiful, competent, educated,well dressed,young mothers just like her. Other than the old missionaries:)). If you have not downloaded the Family Support Manual on this site do so and study the introduction before you go. It is so powerful and comforting and will help you understand that there will be women there who understand just like the women here. I truly hope you are going to a women only group and that your husband is going to men only. You will get the most benefit out of a women's only meeting. If that is not available in your area my husband and I attended a regular ARP group for about 6 months. It was helpful but not like the women's group. PASG'S or Family Support. You can check out meeting schedules on ldsfamilyservices.org, click on support meetings and it will give you some idea of the meetings in your area. That schedule is not always up to date, so be sure to check with your local family services office for current up to date meetings and locations.
Summer, You will heal. You will find Joy. You and your husband will have that celestial marriage you thought you had and you will find with consistent recovery your marriage your life will be the best it has ever been. You will find your old-self again, and you will smile in your reflection and nod a gesture of understanding. My love and prayers to you and please let us know how your first meeting goes."
posted at 17:50:08 on October 22, 2010 by byourownhero
Summer    
"Meetings have changed my wife's life. We are supposed to be leaving now for one but our baby sitters cancelled so we are staying behind. We are so disappointed. We love those meetings. I promise you my wife is more bummed about it than me, she really wanted to go and said that much over dinner.

They will change your life."
posted at 18:12:24 on October 22, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Summer I can feel your pain    
"I relate so much to your pain, it's like my own and I would like to give you a virtual hug. I do not feel strong but the pain is getting easier to manage now. thanks for sharing your experiences, they are always helpful to me. I know you will get better and stronger, I wrote on another blog, that one the things I realized out of this mess is that having been betrayed and unloved the way I was, brought me face to face with my own weaknesses. I could no longer hide. I did not realize that my whole life I had been looking for someone to love me so I can feel of worth, someone who would make me happy. I thought I had found him. This crises helped me to face my broken self and take the power back. I know I need to love myself and I need to create my own happiness with him or without, it does not matter. I will never be truly happy until I fix myself or rather let the Savior fix me, hapiness comes from within. It is still so hard at times but I slowly feeling grateful for what I'm learning, to love myself so I can properly love others. Give yourself what he did not give you. Love yourself, forgive yourself, pamper yourself, be gentle with yourself, give yourself all those things that you wished he would have given you and no one will ever be able to take your self esteem and your happiness ever again.
take good care

Angel, you are in my prayers all this week. I pray that you might be guided and protected and comforted ..."
posted at 22:15:55 on October 22, 2010 by crushed
Crushed,    
"Thank you for your answers and for a glimpse into your sweet heart."
posted at 22:41:52 on October 22, 2010 by Anonymous
Rugga,    
"Do you ever miss watching "Dog the Bounty Hunter"?"
posted at 22:43:37 on October 22, 2010 by Anonymous
Anon    
"This break from Media has done me wonders because I have not the foggiest clue what that show is. Detatching dude detatching"
posted at 10:02:58 on October 23, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Ha Ha Ha!    
"You aren't missing anything!!"
posted at 14:58:05 on October 23, 2010 by Anonymous


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