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Working through feelings
By angelmom
7/3/2010 12:11:53 AM
Some days are better than others. and today is not one of the better ones. The tears are really coming on freely.

Nothing really special happened. It is just sometimes the depression and the weight of my situation hits me and I find myself back on my knees begging my Father in Heaven for comfort.

The enormity of being surrounded by Porn addicts overtakes me sometimes. It is not like your loved one has cancer and someone brings over a casserole or cookies. It is a very lonely place and I hate it.

It is pain you live with year after year and you can only talk about it with a select few. It is not one of those things you share while bearing your testimony.

I feel blessed to have found this blog and my PASG women's support group. Before that I have no one to talk to. That has helped, but I still have to walk this road alone.

I sometimes wonder if I could share this with people around me or my family, they might say, " oh, that explains a lot"! “Then they might understand all of the times I just seemed to check out of life.

To be honest, I am just tired. I just want to hide half of the time. Sometimes I do hide. It becomes hard to play the nice Mormon Mom act. Nothing about my life fits that role.

Does anyone (especially spouses) else feel this way? I am sure you are out there; it would just be nice to hear from someone who has been in my shoes..

Thanks,
Angel

Comments:

We are here...    
"It is a lonely place when one indulges in porn. The one caught in the addiction and the spouse. Having been caught in this snare before I withdrew from my family, church and work because I felt so guilty and unworthy. I can not imagine the hurt and sorrow I caused my wife and kids.

The reason I wanted to write this post was to give you hope. I have turned away from porn and I have been clean for along time now. I found talking to my spouse and Bishop extremely helpful and my support group were and still are a wonderful support. Stay close to Heavenly Father. Your not alone, prayer really works, use your support group. Heavenly Father will help you find away to talk to you family but use caution take your time. Read through the ARP material answer the questions honestly it will bring you to a point of humility were the Lord will really bless you and your family. Angel I am attending the temple regularly again and I will put your name on the prayer roll within the week. We don't have to use real names he knows who you are.

If you have the time visit my website it's a safe place. I have good music and uplifting video's. I share about my insights from my recovery. Angel porn is always going to be there but as we follow the course outline answering the questions will help you build your own plan of action. And as you go alone in the steps Father will increase your capacity it resist and endure and you will truly feel the love of the Saviour. www.wix.com/Another_Dad/arp

PS: Excuse the Australian spelling....LOL."
posted at 09:30:49 on July 3, 2010 by Another_Dad
We addicts are sorry    
"I know I am.

I hope and pray that you will find the divine strength to get over your everest.
No one deserves to go through what you and my wife are experiencing.
No advice here just prayers.

God bless."
posted at 19:02:36 on July 3, 2010 by ruggaexpat
I Know    
"After one of our PASG group meetings, we were talking to someone who had come for the first time. The comment was made "It's like someone in my family died. But without the hugs and casseroles."

For about a year after I found out, I felt like the only woman in the church who was going through what I was. I kept looking for ensign articles on surviving adultery, but even when I found them, it didn't quite fit. It wasn't until we both found lds recovery groups that I started hearing my own story over and over again, and somehow, helping others bear their pain has lessened mine.

I have not born this as long as you have. I have a teenage son, and I pray every day that he will be shielded from this evil. I do know that simple obedience, prayer, scripture study and all the "Sunday school answers" have helped me get through the tough days, when Endure to the End is especially daunting.

Remember that you don't have to act. From what I can tell, you ARE a "nice mormon mom." You didn't choose your circumstances. You are loved!"
posted at 15:26:32 on July 4, 2010 by Anonymous
Perfect Mormons    
"I really like what everyone has said, but especially the last paragraph by Anonymous.

There is no such thing as a Nice Mormon Mom without problems. None of the RS women are perfect, and NONE of them have perfect families. I think EVERYONE in the church is experiencing problems similar to what we talk about on this website either within their immediate family or just one step away. (If your own husbands and sons aren't struggling, then your brothers, your father, your nephews, or your cousins surely are, I bet. The girls in your family may be as well. And if none of that is true...your family must have some other problem.)

This is what the gospel is all about. We ALL have sins, problems, and very personal trials. We ALL need the atonement. The atonement CAN heal us all."
posted at 17:36:56 on July 4, 2010 by BeClean
DEar angel mom ..I know how hard it is!!!    
"I am a porn addict' s wife, and have been in hell for the past ten years thou I only found out the beginning of this year that he has been addicted this whole time. I am on a survive mode and my life feels a lot like a nightmare. I feel at times so stuck, so stuck... so miserable... the worse thing about this trial is you mentionned it, how isolated and alone you are. If he had died, or someone had died or was terribly sick, etc.. I would have gotten the help and compassion I need from everyone around me.
I am unconfortable Beclean with always refering to the fact that everyone has problems... THIS IS a problem that feels like a tragedy ( like a real loss, like someone died) and you can not get the help and compassion from other people like you could in other tragedy of life!!!!! there are no perfect family, but living with a porn addict is like going trough a REAL LIFE TRAGEDY So it is extremely difficult!!!! Thou , a lot of people must go trough tragedies, they can get the support they need from everyone around them. For example, your friends can understand why you are sad, they can help with children, etc.. Not everyone is a porn addict, the pourcentages in the world are around 6% of people exposed become addicted!!! I hope they are much less in the church thou due to all the warning of the prophets, etc.. Sorry, I had to throw that in, because living with a porn addict should not be downplayed to every day's problems...

Anyways, dear angel , you are not alone. I completely understand. I never thought I could experience such a pain, the future of my family and of my small children is threatened in a real way. Somedays, the pain is suffocating. I try to give it the Lord, I pray with intensity, do my 12 steps, etc... And I do not understand why the Lord just doesn't take the pain away. However I understand that I must drink out of my own bitter cup. And somedays, at some moments, I just have such a hard time, I do not want to drink it, I want it removed. I have to trust him that, if I endure it well, it will all be for my good and it shall give me experience!! Almost, everynight I fall asleep on my knees crying and praying for help.
Meanwhile, I do project also this image of perfect mormom family, but I do not care what anyone think anymore, I just want the pain eased. I want the burden lighten on my shoulder..
So I do everything I can to humble myself and submit myself. I feel like this is my ISAAC (for Abraham), the ultimate sacrifice of my life, and happiness to stay and endure more, when sometimes all I want to do is run away from these circumstances.
I also feel extremely lonely, dear angel, there are no women's group in my area, not even a sanon. I must go the general group with my husband and with people addicted to all sorts of other addictions. Oh, how I wish there were other women that I could talk to. I feel my own personal road to Gethsémané is an extremely lonely one. Only my Savior is there for me. This must have been the only way for me to learn important lessons the Lord wants me to learn, but it is hard. I am in the storm , right in the middle of it!!!

I will pray for you and thanks for posting because it allows me to know that I am not alone. "
posted at 21:22:41 on July 4, 2010 by crushed
Sisters.......    
"I morn with you and the heartache you are experiencing. I can not imagine the hurt you feel from your adversities. I would never wish any of my trials or adversity on anyone. And I am glad that I/we do not have other peoples.

We are making a direct attempt to strengthen the brethren in our ward by leading by example. Openly talking about sexual sin and to fight against it. We encourage ward members to purify there lives and set an example to their children.

As far as I am concerned every family is dysfunctional most of the time and functional a little bit of the time. Knowing the difference and striving for the latter is what my wife and I strive for. Let the Lord's will be done in all things. I know he can take pain away I have cried in physical agony after a back operational. The after affects left me feeling like I was dying. I remember well kneeling in pain and asking for the pain to be take away. I honestly told Heavenly Father I could to take it anymore. It was some time later that I could get myself to sleep, this all happen while I was in hospital and the effects from the drugs the doctors gave me. Anyway I woke in the morning and the pain was gone. I still had months of physical recovery to go through but I was able to manager.

I am rambling I hope someone get something from what I wrote, else may I had to write it for me and recognise Heavenly Fathers presence in my life.

This is what the gospel is all about. We ALL have sins, problems, and very personal trials. We ALL need the atonement. The atonement CAN heal us all." commented by Beclean."
posted at 06:29:07 on July 5, 2010 by Another_Dad
Emotional Pain is another monster    
"I think we are all trying to help each other follow the savior and that is what makes this site so powerful. If not we would all be elsewhere. I have tried to look at other recovery sites on the net and they are full of good people trying to manage this addiction but Christ is nonexistant and as far as I am concerned if he is missing I am wasting my time.

I do not want to offer any advice here on this issue, I am so trying hard to understand my wife's pain and I just cannot get close though I try. It sucks when you lie down at night in another room hearing her weeping. It cuts you in half. I know we are all sinners in some way and I know we are all families trying to function better but this addiction was not designed by Satan for some general purpose. It was designed to destroy my family and I took it in the mouth hook line and sinker. So I cannot sit and try tell my destroyed wife that she and others all sin. She sins for sure that I know but she never got close to destroying the family as I did.

I FIRMLY BELIEVE THIS: PORN ADDICTION WAS DESIGNED TO DESTROY THE SPOUSE MORE THAN THE ADDICT. I never suffered as much as my wife emotionally. I do not think I came close so I feel for her and others in her shoes. I have given this a lot of thought for some time now. All I can do is show her that I love her and that is not easy when she is grieving so badly that her world is dark.

Anyway I also hope the wives know we suffer too. It is an endless hell for us to endure and when we finally do get the strength to exit the mess we are hopeful, we can love, we can be better. If we cannot except these things then we are all wasting our time.

God bless all."
posted at 08:35:37 on July 5, 2010 by ruggaexpat
It's not a contest    
"Early on, my husband and I got a little competitive with pain. Trying to decide who was suffering more. It wasn't very constructive. It wasn't until we both started thinking about who had already borne the pain for both of us and who could ultimately remove it that we made any head way.

Of course the addict suffers. It can just be hard, in the middle of the worst pain of his/her life for the spouse to comfort or take comfort the one who caused it. What you say about porn addiction destroying the spouse is really interesting, expat. I hadn't thought of it that way.

Crushed, whenever I read your posts, I wish I could sit down with you and talk to you, and let you know you're not alone. I remember praying for a woman to talk to about this. Although I appreciated the support of my Bishop, and my husband's sincere desire to help me heal, it just wasn't the same as spilling my heart to a woman who wouldn't judge me because she'd been there too.
It might sound silly, but I really wanted a hug. Over and over, I saw priesthood leaders embrace my husband and encourage him, then maybe politely shake my hand or nod at me. I understand why, but I needed that contact and support too! Especially since our bishop had counseled us not to tell anyone of our situation (which probably saved our marriage, by the way) Still, It left me feeling very lonely for a woman to talk to.

I petitioned the Lord for this. It took a year, and it didn't come the way I thought it would, but it did come.

I'd say more, but for now i just say hang in there sisters, and bretheren too. There is a way out of this for all of us "
posted at 10:25:46 on July 5, 2010 by Anonymous
A trap    
"I agree no contest but how easy is it to accept when your wife is down for the count and you are now out of the ring with a small victory under the belt? I know a great deal about how I was trapped and yes it was a very calculated piece of work. I know the adversary has been working tirelessly on my wife. I can see it clearly now. What has saved her soul is a devotion and love for her savior that has always inspired me and made me take note. In the bigger picture, Satan used this whole process (I hate the fact that I was his pawn) to attck her in a very real way. This attack did not come when I confessed, that just magnified the intensity but he was working tirelessly on her for so long before that due to my sins. Long story short He had me all along but he did not have her. This was all calculated to trap her and that Crush might be why you feel stuck right now. I am not trying to give advice here so I hope no one takes offense. I hate the fact that my wife feels captive with me and I am feeling freedom for the very first time. That is not right and it is not fair it just does not feel right.

It is just a big fat mess and so unnecessarily so."
posted at 11:16:55 on July 5, 2010 by ruggaexpat
The opponent?????    
"Was not me!!
Reading the last post sounds like I was the dude that gave her the left hook but I was never in the ring with her though she would say I had her on the ropes and delivered the KO punch."
posted at 11:20:32 on July 5, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Dear Crushed    
"I did not in any way intend to downplay porn addiction as an every day sin or problem. Please forgive me if I have ever offended you. Your struggles and Angel Mom's struggles are terrible, indeed. The events you have suffered through ARE an extremely difficult real life tragedy, as you put it. I would never disagree with that.

If you reread my post, I was only referring to the fact that almost everyone in the Church deals with this same exact problem or another real life tragedy. I just learned that the brother of a dear friend is in jail as a consequence of his actions, likely related to sex addiction. I have another friend with a brother-in-law on probation, and I know many, many more upstanding Mormon families who struggle with these self-same problems. And other families I know who, to my knowledge, do not struggle with this struggle with something else.

Again, I was not downplaying the seriousness or terror of this addiction. Instead, like you, I was merely trying to tell Angel Mom that she is NOT alone. If everyone in the church would reveal the trials they are currently struggling with, I believe we would find that we are ALL struggling, and most of us with sexual issues within our own family. I believe there is a reason why God commands us to covenant to keep the law of chastity only after we have made many, many other covenants. It is one of the hardest laws for men to follow. Most of the world cannot abide by it their entire lives, unfortunately including many Mormons.

So, once again, you dear Sisters are not alone. Your tragedy is real and terrible. But more people understand you than you know. And you, in turn, probably understand the suffering of other women better than you realize.

I pray for you. And want you to know that without doubt, the Lord can and WILL heal your soul as you turn yourself over to him."
posted at 15:48:41 on July 5, 2010 by BeClean
I don't buy it.    
"There was a time in the not too distant past that I was ready to leave the church. After I found out about my husband and his many disgusting sins and deceptions, I was told that many, many men in the church have this problem. I was told this as a way to make me feel better I guess. Oh well..if lots of men do it then I guess I'm not so hurt by it after all! What a relief!! NOT! In fact, that statement made me almost leave the church. I knew the church was true and always have but I didn't want to be a part of such hypocrisy. All the sudden the early prophets with their many, many wives made more sense. Men were disgusting pigs and needed lots of women to be happy. Frankly I'd rather be single than with a man like that. I didn't leave the church but it took a long time for me to learn to trust Priesthood leaders in general. It was hard to heed advice from leaders and wonder in the back of my mind if they watched porn or did some other vile thing the night before giving me such wonderful advice. Gradually, and I mean really gradually, I began to gain a stronger testimony through my trials. It takes a long time to heal. I don't believe that EVERY man in the church struggles with this problem. I believe now, after much prayer and I believe some divine inspiration, that the majority of men in the church are righteous men. There are a some who are not. I have found that addicts like to declare that "most" men in the church have this problem and it is my opinion that this is just a way to make themselves feel less shame. If everyone is doing it then I'm not so horrible after all seems to be the mentality. Whenever I'd have a flare up of anger my husband liked to remind me how it's not just him, it's the majority of the men in the church who have this problem as well. He's wrong. I don't believe that now. BeClean, I know you have a great heart and only mean well. However, some of your statements just plain rub me the wrong way. Saying that the law of chastity is one of the hardest laws for men to follow and that most men can't live it their entire lives is just a cop out. No offense. I just don't buy it. I believe that there are many, many Mormon men that love their wives and ONLY their wives and it's a love that has nothing to do with sex. Two years ago I would have no problem with your statement and I would have believed it. Now I just think it makes women want to despair and curl up in a hopeless ball. I know you didn't mean for that statement to have that effect but when I first read it I had that familiar pit in the bottom of my stomach and I felt sad. Then I recognized that feeling for what it is..Satan trying to get his hooks in me again and get me thinking that all men are pigs. I don't believe that anymore. Thank goodness for the special witnesses that I have had from a loving Heavenly Father that I WILL be with a man that is faithful. It is not impossible.They do exist. Keep the faith Crushed and Anglemom. You will be blessed with a righteous husband. This is something that I know."
posted at 21:19:58 on July 5, 2010 by Anonymous
Thank U anonymous    
"I completely agree with you!!! And am also tired of my husband saying that everyone has problems, challenges... as if that should give me confort (sorry Beclean I know you mean well). There's problems and there's tragedies that are agonising to individuals... Everyone has problems but not everyone is going through hell !!! I also went through and still struggling with my views of men. Fortunately, there are wonderful righteous men in my family whose lives have helped me see how very SICK my husband is and gave me hope in men. I agree with you that one of the strategy of Satan is to make us believe that all man are pigs so that the only choice for women in this world is just to have their heart broken and endure to the end. He hopes to get us discouraged and just accept misery . Not all man have this problem, it is a small percentage!!! However, there is a reason why Heavenly Father has let this happen in my life, I know that this is my personal furnace of affliction and the best way to purify me. My prayers is that as I submit to his wil , he will deliver me from the consequences of someone else's unrighteous actions. Anyways, courage sisters, it is so dark here that I'm sure our lives can only get better as we fight to get this evil out of our lives."
posted at 21:54:22 on July 5, 2010 by crushed
Once again...    
"This is exactly why addicts help other addicts and leave loved ones to tend to the wounds of other loved ones. How can a person comment on something they haven't experienced without it coming off as anything but insulting? tact goes a long way."
posted at 22:09:33 on July 5, 2010 by Anonymous
Once again...    
"Once again the loved ones are made to feel that their thoughts and feelings have no value to addicts and only addicts are capable of helping each other. I think the reason that this site doesn't get much action lately is because loved ones are continually told to get back to the loved ones side. It's a shame. We could help each other. I'm not able to log onto the loved ones side so can't post there. Sorry."
posted at 22:26:41 on July 5, 2010 by Anonymous
Thanks    
"Thanks to everyone who cared enough about a complete stranger to take time to post your heartfelt responses.

I have been out of town for the last two weekends and have missed my PSAG meetings. I really need to attend my meetings. I am beginning to realize that that is my lifeline here on earth. Of course, the most important lifeline is my Savior.

I completely agree that trying to overcome either this addiction or being the loved one of those addicted, requires Christ's Atonement. I hover between being human and giving all of my pain to the Lord and knowing that he can heal me. I know this, but unfortunately it takes time, lots of time.

My husband is remorseful and as far as I can see, he truly hurts for me and himself for the pain he caused. I try really hard to let him know that I am not blaming him for my pain, but I know that he hurts, because I hurt. This is a very difficult situation, but we are doing the best we can to work our way through this mess.

My son on the other hand is becoming worse. I am grateful that he does not live in our home. It is hard to see him because he is the angriest soul I know. I hate seeing him in pain and watching him lose everything. He has no job (fired from the last two ), and will run out of money soon. Many people reject him because of is inappropriate comments and self loathing negative behavior. He says he just wants to die. He overeats, and lives on a steady diet of media, such as texting, gaming, movies, online videos and let's not forge,t porn. He has a few other things in his life, but I watch on the sidelines as his life is slipping away into a fantasy world.

What once was a very loving and caring son is hidden from sight. It has been so long since I have seen my real son that I have forgotten how he was when he was not this way. The person he has become is someone I do not recognize. He has lost most if not all affection and kindness towards me. With all of this happening, I know that Father in Heaven loves him more than I could ever imagine and that he is watching over him ( I ask for that many times a day in my prayers).. The only part I can play in his life right now is prayer, and complete faith. What feels like forever ago, we had such a close relationship. Still at the end of the day, it cannot matter. I still have to focus on healing my life and that keeps me on my knees in and out of my days.

Describing this as a sort of death is so true. Like death, it is in a category of its own. When I thought of living in the end of times, I always pictured evil as something outside my home, not infeltrating in the very heart of it.

I agree that Satan does most of the damage to the women. Most of us need a connection and it is so hard to find. My PASG group averages about 3 women a week, while the men’s group as 30.. The shame is such that they are all living in a secret hell just like I was. I too prayed for other women and after many years, my prayers were answered. This group is part of that answer.

I work my steps, and it will take time. I have accepted that I am in this for the long run. I have endured many things in this life, but I never even scratched the surface of the Atonement until now. I need it every hour of every day.
I am grateful for the blessings along the way and by your comments I can tell that I just counted 11 more blessings today.

Thank you, Thank you...... It means so much.

Angel"
posted at 22:31:01 on July 5, 2010 by angelmom
Dr Phil    
"So I was watching Dr Phil the other day and even though he's not LDS he made a powerful statement that hit home with me. The episode was about infidelity and the man on the show had cheated on his wife. Dr.Phil said that she would never be able to heal and move on until she felt that her husband really "got it" and understood exactly what he had done to her. So often the addict doesn't want to hear it because it causes shame and shame causes relapses. But the wife needs to feel that her husband "gets it". That's why the loved ones comments are so valuable. It helps us get it and by getting it the loved ones can begin to heal."
posted at 22:33:26 on July 5, 2010 by Anonymous
Wow!    
"I was taken completely out of context, and I believe I have been misunderstood.

I thank you, Anonymous and Crushed, for your honest take on my comments. And I apologize for offending you so badly. Please allow me one more attempt at clarification.

I never meant that EVERY man is addicted to porn. I didn't even mean that most men in the church are CURRENTLY struggling with a porn addiction, although I can see where you read that into my comments.

What I meant was that almost every family has at least one loved one (a father, a husband, a brother, a son) who deals or has dealt with this problem. Therefore, while not EVERY man struggles with this problem, almost every FAMILY (and therefore everyone) in the Church has at one point been directly affected by this problem. Therefore, my dear hurt sisters, you are not alone. There are MANY, MANY people in your shoes, but not many want to admit it.

I think it would be appropriate to ask your Relief Society President to have all the sisters in the ward who have someone in their family (father, husband, brother, son, or other) who struggles or ever has struggled with pornography to raise their hand. Don't have them announce who the addict is, but just see how many sisters in the ward have been directly affected and hurt by a porn addict. I still bet most of the sisters in your ward understand how you feel. You are not alone.

I am NOT rationalizing my past sins (and for me, they are becoming very long past). I recognize my past sins for what they were, and I am NOT taking comfort in the sins of other men or trying to use statistics as a cop out or excuse. Finally, I am NOT trying to discourage anyone or to say, "it's just always going to be this way."

I know from experience the atonement works. I am clean. Ruggaexpat is clean. Sierra's husband is clean. There are many more men like us. And there are women who have been sorely wounded who are now whole and healed by the Savior. My wife is one. Be of good cheer. Be of good comfort. He has overcome these sins and this hell that you are suffering. You are NOT alone, Angel Mom and Crushed. There are MANY in the church suffering just like you, and you, too, will get through this, if you put your faith in God.

Finally, without any attempt to argue, I just want to clear the air. I cannot stand untruths to be passed off as truth.

- 10 percent of adults admit to porn addiction. 28 percent of those are women. Assuming those stats are true, the math indicates that over 14 percent of all adult males and over 5 percent of all adult females ADMIT to porn addiction.

- More than 70% of men from 18 to 34 visit a pornographic site in a typical month. That sounds like how much I visited a porn site during the 5-6 years BEFORE I began full recovery. In other words, when I was visiting a porn site once a month, I still considered myself an active addict, because I couldn't stop. Therefore, if this stat is true, I think more than 70% of men from 18 to 34 are, quite possibly, porn addicts.

- 47% percent of families said pornography is a problem in their home in 2003. I bet that number has only increased with the proliferation of the internet. My parents' family didn't even have the internet in 2003. Now they do. I bet more than half of all families struggle with this issue today.

- 9 out of 10 children between the ages of 8 and 16 have viewed pornography on the Internet. Almost everyone these days sees porn before they are 16, and 14-70 percent of those young men become addicts.

These stats are from: http://www.safefamilies.org/sfStats.php

But that does NOT mean ANY of us should give up or rest on our laurels. No, we should fight this problem with everything within us.

"Let us be faithful in keeping the commandments of the Lord; for behold he is mightier than all the earth," (1 Ne 4:1). God is mightier than this terrible, terrible plague of the last days. He will save the men who turn their lives to him, and the women as well.

PS I absolutely LOVE the contributions of the loved ones, and I have NEVER felt offended by your thoughts. I hope you loved ones never feel relegated to another site or another place. Please continue to share your thoughts and to disagree with me; you can't offend me. I will continue to love and pray for you. :)"
posted at 03:03:52 on July 6, 2010 by BeClean
She will never get it...    
"Although Dr. Phil can be very insightful at times, I have to disagree a little on this one.

She will never heal until she finds the atonement of Jesus Christ. It will not matter if he "gets it" or not, she will never heal untill she experiences the atonement working in her life.

That is where I am at this point in my life. I am still feeling so much pain, but I am learning that Christ will heal me in the same way he can my husband. It is something I must do with or without him. I hope it is with him, however there is only one guarantee and that is, Christ suffered and died for me and as I open the door he will heal my pain.

I believe that my husband gets it, but the pain is still alive in me as has been for many years, especilly as I relive it again with my son. But as I contiue to look to the Lord and utilize his atoneing love for me, then I will get it. I am not there yet, but I plan to one day be.

May all of us sisters discover the healing balm found only in Jesus Christ.

Angel"
posted at 09:27:41 on July 6, 2010 by angelmom
I'm sorry but Dr. Phil is the biggest fraud...    
"his pop psychology does more damage than good."
posted at 09:42:17 on July 6, 2010 by Anonymous
The purpose of my comments    
"Dear Angel Mom, thank you so very much for that testimony. You hit it spot on. I agree completely.

And just so I'm clear: The statistics that say that so many, many men struggle with pornography are not meant to make you sisters feel better about your husband's actions. Don't feel better about their actions! Their actions are wrong and without excuse. These statistics are only meant to let you know that you are not alone. Pray for a group or someone to share this burden with, and talk to your husband and the Bishop about your need to share with someone. There are people out there all around you who understand you. A few of them are on this site, and a few are at your local group meetings.

Also so that I'm clear: These statistics are not meant to make you think that all the Priesthood holders around you are currently struggling with porn. That is not true, either. Hopefully, your Bishop and his counselors, and those who serve in other Priesthood leadership callings have completely repented and put these sins behind them, if they ever struggled with them. While I am certain that there are, unfortunately, men in Bishoprics and Stake Presidencies who struggle with pornography, I DO believe the general rule is our local Priesthood leaders are not currently struggling with the problem.

I do not assume that all the good brethren in our Church are currently addicts, especially since I now know from personal experience that the atonement works to remove this problem. Furthermore, I truly expect and believe that every one of our wonderful general authorities does not currently struggle with addiction. I expect that they love their wives and keep their thoughts pure. And so should your husband! I am not excusing him or myself. Though it is very difficult to overcome this problem, it is possible through the atonement of Jesus Christ, and we should give every effort to serve Him, so that he can take this problem from us.

Finally, I don't believe that the problem of pornography was as rampant among men and church members before the advent of the internet. The early modern prophets and apostles were not disgusting pigs; they were servants of God, attempting to obey his very specific and direct commands. They were not addicted to porn, and they were not adulterers. And I would guess that most of our grandparents, who were young members of the church 50 years ago, were also NEVER addicted to porn or filled with lustful, adulterous thoughts that caused them to betray their wives. For the most part, the Priesthood brethren who died before the internet probably lived very clean, wholesome, pure, and undefiled lives, completely loyal to their wives, and having only to overcome their own inappropriate thoughts.

But we live in a completely different time, when a new power has come upon the earth with GREAT potential for good, to bring the gospel into every home. But that same power has been abused by satan to attack and destroy, if possible, every family on the planet. We live in a day when 90 percent of youth have seen pornographic images. That was completely unheard of 50 years ago. We live in a time when porn comes into a home with a single, free flick of a finger. You don't need to muster up your courage to go down to the adult store and BUY the magazine. We live in a time with billions and billions of dollars (those numbers were unheard of 50 years ago) are spent specifically to snag, snare, capture and destroy your husband and you.

So, no, the Priesthood brethren of 50-180 years ago did not struggle with pornography; only with their own feelings of lust. But the Priesthood brethren of today DO fight that battle. ALL of them have seen porn, and ALL of them must withstand the powerful temptations of satan that arise when they see it. This is NOT meant to make you feel better, but it is meant to let you know that you are not alone. We--the men and women of this church--are ALL waging the same war against satan and the porn industry.

Our spouses are not our enemies; Satan and his porn industry are our enemies. These terrible beasts want our spouses, and they want our families. I hope we can be on the same team as we fight these enemies. Please, please, do not let the enemy destroy your family, if at all possible. I believe that in most (but not all) cases, we should stand BESIDE our spouses as long as he or she is fighting the beast that holds him or her bound. I know through personal experience that if you put God first and strengthen your spouse in the battle, you will come out victorious through the atonement of Christ."
posted at 12:06:57 on July 6, 2010 by BeClean
good comments    
"Angel mom so sorry for your son!! I went to the temple today and entered your name, albeit false on the prayer roll. I wish I could do more for you.
Be clean, thanks for writing and trying to uplift us. I can tell you have your heart in the right place. I agree with you in everything you have written. I just really am struggling. How do you stand beside a man who has broken his promises and your heart time and time again? My instincts are telling me to run... as far as I can. The best way I can explain it is when you have been bitten near death by for instance a dog, you become scared of them. My spouse feels to me like a stranger( a hidden life does that to you), his thoughts and motives, his character, etc.. it is not the man I married, I honestly do not know who he is and what he believes in, what he is thinking. Talking to him is difficult, he has and still is a closed book. But my point is how do you stand beside someone knowing he can and might do things that will destroy the family anytime??? How do you trust someone even as he claims that he is fighting it? When you can not see the end of it. I feel like so many that my spouse is the instrument used by the adversary to destroy my faith in God. Satan got his foot in the house trough my husband. How do I trust and love a man who has and I do not know when might let Satan come in and destroy our family? Honestly I struggle with this and maybe you or someone can help: I have a hard time and I mean a hard time getting over the betrayal... it hurts so much to know that he has wanted other women (I'm still young and I expected and expect to be the only one, and I'm not sloppy, etc..), and to know that he may still want and look at other women... it hurts me so badly!!! I know it is an addiction and I know it does not matter what I look like, etc.. it's not about me, but it hurts so much. I feel so rejected and alone, having given the best years of my life to him while he is been busy looking at other women. Do you still stand beside a man who can not properly love you and for how long? Your whole life as long as he is willing to fight it, even if it takes a lifetime, I have my whole life in front of me, a life spent fighting pronography and not being loved and appreciated and spoiled the way I know I desearve, is so hard for me to consider."
posted at 15:14:02 on July 6, 2010 by crushed
Dear Crushed    
"Thank you for your response and your open and honest thoughts. I am very touched by what you have written, and I do not pretend to know the answers to your genuine, pleading questions.

I like your dog-biting analogy. Of course you would fear a dog that bit you, especially one that bit you repeatedly. If that dog were a stray dog that you had run into on the street, you would run from it as fast as you can.

But what if this dog were the dog you had when you were eight, and he was your best friend for 7 years. And then one day, he bit you--several times. I bet you would would be angry, hurt, and scared. But I also bet you would do everything you could to get the dog help, if you could. If there were any hope at all that the dog could be "cured" of whatever is causing him to bite you, you would probably pursue that cure with him. You would see your previously faithful dog not as the aggressor, the attacker, and the wickedest of all creatures; you would see him as your long-time best friend who needs help because he is acting strangely, perhaps because he was attacked or bitten by something else--the true enemy. And if you learned that there was a person in your neighborhood intentionally tracking down pets and injecting them with a poison that caused them to bite their masters, I bet you would find a way to forgive your dog completely and seek earnestly to arrest the true bad guy.

The analogy is far from perfect. But your husband is not a stray dog. He was once your best friend, and he has been poisoned by an insidious, hateful enemy who loves to see dogs bite their masters--husbands hurt their wives. (Are you loving the analogy that your husband is your dog and you are his master? :) )

Anyway, since your husband is NOT a dog, perhaps the only thing you can do is approach him realizing that he, too, is under attack and suffering. He, too, is in his own personal hell. He probably doesn't want to destroy and lose his family, but he probably feels helpless and powerless against the power that has trapped him for YEARS. Here is ONE suggestion, which I give in love, without intending to offend.

Explain to your dog of a husband that you WANT to support him and help him and trust him and stand beside him and defend him from satan and eventually love him again. But then, explain to him that you cannot do all of those things unless he is doing EVERYTHING in his power to fight this battle by YOUR side. You two would have to discuss what that looks like, but I suggest you read what Sierra's husband is doing to fight the good fight (see Sierra's final two posts of this blog: http://www.ldsar.org/ViewBlog.aspx?EntryId=6852 ). I suggest you pick several things that Sierra's husband is doing to win the battle, and ask your husband which of those things he is willing to commit to doing. I suggest that, at a minimum, your husband should agree to regularly attend group meetings (with you, if possible), he should be reading his scriptures for at least 30 minutes every day, and he should promise you that he will always be honest about his struggles; he will tell you the same day that he views porn or mbs.

When you agree on the ways that your husband is going to fight the disease, then you give him your promise to stand by his side and support him and work with him, as long as he is still fighting the fight. That means that even if he comes to you saying he screwed up, you will show sincere love, concern, understanding, and forgiveness, IF he is keeping all of his other commitments to you; IF he is showing you in these other ways that he is truly trying to fight the good fight with all his might.

If he will consistently and forever do everything Sierra's husband is doing, I am 100 percent confident that the Lord will soon rescue him from his hell. And if you do something similar, right along side with your husband, the Lord will also soon rescue you from yours. God is real, and he will bless and reward you both as you turn your lives COMPLETELY over to him, without any reservation on your time or talents.

But I suggest you also explain to your husband that if he is unwilling to make a suitable effort to turn himself over to the Lord and fight at your side, then you cannot continue to support him, love him, or fight at his side. You must run from the evil he is bringing into your home.

In this way, you are not demanding that your husband stop his addictive behavior immediately, something that he may think is impossible. Instead, you are demanding that he show you in other ways that he is serious about fighting the good fight. And you put your faith in God that God will remove the addictive behavior if you are standing together in your dedication to Him.

The idea is to recognize that for some addicted husbands who have been fighting a losing battle for 20 years, completely abstaining from today may seem impossible, no matter how much they love their wives. But all husbands CAN control other parts of their lives in order to show their wives (and, more importantly, the Lord) that they are sincere in their fight. They can be honest with their wives when they screw up. They can seek help from others. They can put God first in their daily devotion. They can say daily prayers with their wives. If a husband is doing these things EVERY DAY, then I suggest it is solid evidence that he is doing his part, and the wife should prayerfully consider remaining at his side and fighting the battle with him (and continuing to share her life and love with him).

That is my OPINION. I hope it helps someone. Please don't let it offend. It isn't meant to offend. And, of course, since my suggestions come from an imperfect person, they will be very IMPERFECT. With love,"
posted at 16:11:17 on July 6, 2010 by BeClean
thanks for your comments    
"To stand and encourage.. how do you do it when in the first place the whole thing, our whole lives has been a lie, marriage based on a lie, children born out of his fears of being discovered, etc.. I never had a best friend.. never... it has always been so difficult. We got married and I was put on the bottom list of priorities... I rarely got appreciation and barely got any help all those years.. I always knew something was wrong and I tried so hard to be each time a more loving and forgiving wife. I thought he was unloving because of his parents divorce. All these years, my strenght to carry on, cooking, cleaning, taking care of almost everything came because I believe at least he was faithfull to me and the church. And I believe that even if he was so careless with me, if I tried hard, everything will work out. So , when I found out.. I could not believe I had let someone take advantage of me for so long and so many years. All this hard work, these years... wasted all the while he was indulging in porn. The bottom line is my emotionnal tank is completely empty, I feel so tired and used, why even try ... On the other hand, as he sees he has pushed me to the limit, he is trying to get over his addiction... but I am just so revolted, so hurt.. why wait until any hope for us for died... I feel so insecure and alone, so used. Can I stand by a stranger?
I know it will take a miracle, anyways, I know that I must work on my recovery no matter what. I must do the 12 steps, I must learn to forgive, there is a reason for everything.
Thanks for all your comments and support all of you. It really helps me understand more. And I know I'm always negative.. that is why I come on this site.. to get a bit of hope as I read your words. thanks for writting angelmom and beclean. Is the spouse manual angelmom the same as the one posted on this site?"
posted at 21:34:08 on July 6, 2010 by crushed


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"In a decaying environment, the mind is the last redoubt of righteousness, and it must be preserved even amid bombardment by evil stimuli. Christ is competent to see us through, “for in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted” As promised, He will make either “a way to escape” or a way “to bear it”."

— Neal A. Maxwell

General Conference May 1987