My great wish
By ruggaexpat
5/31/2010 8:36:56 PM
I am still clean and doing really well but I have a huge desire:

I just want a happy family. Hell in my relationship continues unabated and yet I still feel hope but it is hard when your wife cannot let a day pass without interrogating you about the details of your fantasies. Gosh darn it man I know I have to face it but I just wish she would understand I did not do this crap to hurt her though I did hurt her badly. Everyday there is a woman who walks past us and she says "is that your fantasy girl?" Today we went running and she just opened fire and called me the usuall good for nothing dude again. I suppose it is her way of dealing with her pain but none the less it sucks to be exposed to it.

I know I deserve her wrath and anger so I try to take as much as I can on the chin but I am hurting badly now after consistent anger bouts from her. She does not realize this and does not care how much I hurt, to her this relationship is dead as she likes to remind me every day. This is the most sour relationship now and I honestly don't know if I am fighting a losing battle.

Anyway we reap what we sew and this is a case in point.
I hope all of you out there are happy and pray that you all have the strength to keep fighting.


Keep it up    
"Thanks for sharing, Ruggaexpat. I feel terrible for you (and your wife). I wish things were better. I pray that they will be. Keep going. Christ will heal you, as you know. Hopefully, your wife will let him heal her, too, and you two will be healed and sealed together forever."
posted at 23:11:02 on May 31, 2010 by BeClean
Give her a little satisfaction...    
"I just reread your post, and one idea stood out to me. "...I try to take as much as I can on the chin but I am hurting badly now.... She does not realize this..."

It sounds like you are taking your wife's anger bouts very stoically, knowing that you deserve them. It sounds like these bouts cause you pain, but you are not showing your wife your pain--again, because you deserve it.

But it also sounds like your wife is trying to cause you pain. She wants you to hurt badly, because she hurts badly. If you do not show her that her comments hurt you, won't she just keep trying to hurt you? Is there any way to humbly let her know that her attacks hurt?

It's just a thought, but perhaps her attacks will soften once she knows she has finally done some damage."
posted at 00:36:56 on June 1, 2010 by BeClean
This Month's Ensign.    
"Beclean has posted an article from the Ensign and as I was reading it it reminded me about how you are feeling and how your wife is feeling and this quote brought that to my mind.

"I know that sometimes a wife feels so hurt that she justifies reopening her husband’s past wounds to make him suffer for the pain he has caused her. I came to realize that doing this hinders progress and widens a gap between spouses. The only way through this trial is for both husband and wife to be headed in the same righteous direction."

I would encourage you to read this article and ponder it's message then pray for the inspiration on how you can talk to your wife about it and encourage her to read it and pray for her to understand it's message. I pray for you and your wife that you may work things out in your marriage. Your marriage is worth saving, don't give up."
posted at 07:15:12 on June 1, 2010 by j89
"Recently, I was talking to a dear friend who at the time was separated and facing divorce from his wife. He had completed the repentance process and forsaken pornography and all the wickedness that goes along with it. He was distraught at the breakup of his family and so confused and angry. He told me that he didn't understand how this could be happening. His exact words were " I thought repentance was possible!" He believed that he could confess, forsake and repent and that it would be as if he had never sinned. My words to him can choose the sin but you can't choose the consequences. Example, if a man robs a store but then later repents, he can be forgiven by God but he still may have to go to jail. Repentance doesn't mean that consequences go away. The consequence of your mistakes, Rugga, are that you have lost the love and respect of your dear wife. That doesn't mean that you cannot be completely the LORD. The Lord will always forgive, mere mortals may not. It sucks, but that's reality. Don't let the fact that you have to pay these consequences discourage you and make you falter in your repentance process. Satan would whisper in your ear that you've already lost your why not just go back to what you were doing? Don't listen to him! And be patient with your wife. You never know. The Lord may soften her heart towards you. The fact that she still goes jogging with you and hasn't yet divorced you tells me that she's not committed to breaking up just yet. I don't know anyone in the divorce process that still jogs together. :)"
posted at 10:24:37 on June 1, 2010 by Anonymous
Continued from Anonymous' "Consequences"    
"...or prays together, or studies scriptures together...

Is your wife still willing to do these things with you? If not, is there any way you can humbly invite her to join you in daily prayer and scripture study?"
posted at 12:28:41 on June 1, 2010 by BeClean
Me too…    
"I miss my best friend so much…living without the connection I once had is hard. I know we are on different sides of this but I hear you loud and clear. Why won’t this all just go away?!

I deal with it a little different than your wife. I have major depression. I cry at the drop of a hat. Now you don’t know me…but this is so different from my real personality. Naturally I am a bubbly happy extremely social person. I don’t call my husband names…and to tell you the honest truth, I don’t even feel like calling him names. My husband is a great man…but that great man made some mistakes that broke my heart. Even though I don’t call him names he still feels really bad for the emotional mess I am in. I don’t hold him accountable for the ridiculous mess of a person I am…my reaction to his sins are on me, not my husband. I have asked my husband to please disconnect himself from the things that make me depressed. I asked him to pretend something like my mother died…and that is why I am so sad. I think if he could just hold me, somehow I might feel a little better. But knowing it was him who has made me sad…makes it really hard for him to stand by…He says he feels beat down. Really how much can one person take, the man has repented, wants a happy family…and because of my reaction it is being withheld from him. I wish I could change the depression I feel…I never want to hurt my husband, I really don’t. Now I don’t want to put you in a position to be emotionally abused…but when your wife vents to you…how do you respond? When you say you “take it”…is that silence? When I am crying because of the pain I feel, I could really use some converstation from my husband. Even just a reminder of all the things he is doing to keep our family safe. This might really through her off…”Honey, want is on your mind right now?” And be prepared for the anger storm. You might want to say a personal prayer before talking to her to help give you the strength to get through another negative conversation…Keep a goal in mind to make it positive by the end of the conversation. You might try reaching for her hand as she is crying. What about trying to say a prayer in the heat of the conversation as a couple? There have been conversations that my husband and I have had…and praying was the only way to neutralize the atmosphere. My husband spent a great deal of time getting priesthood worthy. A friend asked him to help give a blessing (I was so happy he was ready at that time). He got dressed in his Sunday best and went over to their home. When he came back to our home, he asked me if I wanted a husband’s blessing. I cried during the whole beautiful blessing he gave me. Just a few suggestions…you might already be doing some of these…and some might be terrible advice. I’m certainly not skilled in the healing process.

The world your wife lives in…is one she just doesn’t recognize. She is human to…when she sees a pretty women, it very well could trigger her into feeling inadequate. I totally understand my husband’s point of view, “hey come on, let’s have a happy family”. Well…that’s all I have ever wanted. But I can see now how easy it is to have someone pretend to be happy with their family, and live a completely different life on the side. So being happy and bubbly when you feel like no one has your back…it’s really really hard! Knowing what’s real and wants not…is tough for someone who has been deceived like this. Sounds like your wife throws some pretty hard questions your way. I ask on a need to know basis…details, no thanks! But maybe that is because I have seen firsthand the stuff my husband got into. If I could erase the crap from my head I would.

Do you see a marriage counselor? Does he/she feel like you are on the right track? Our marriage counselor feels that I have some PTSD symptoms…your wife might need to be talking to a professional. Anger is one of the signs of grieving…your wife has to grieve. I want to rush through the process, but time is something you can’t rush. Your wife needs to see reasons to trust you…over and over and over and over again.

It wears on you I know. But don’t get discouraged in your own healing. My husband feels if he weren’t around my life would be better. Well, not true, I still have to find my way out of this darkness, with or without my husband by my side. My husband once said this to me, “I’m going to be that man I said I would be. I just hope you’re around to see it.” I hope I can be who I need to be too…and I hope that my marriage makes it through this trial.

Ruggaexpat you’re a good man. Many men wouldn’t come to their wives the way you went to yours. Never never regret the gift of honesty you gave your wife, your family, and to yourself. Consequences suck!...Repentance is real! Don’t get the two confused. Brother you're in my prayers!"
posted at 15:14:08 on June 1, 2010 by summer
I hear you all    
"Hey I appreciate you all.

You have all given some good stuff to chew on thank you all.
So here is my follow up:

The ensign article was really good thanks for that, my subscription needs to be renewed again. That is a good reminder about still running together. It was my wife that invited me to run with her and by the end of the run, I left her behind because I just could not take it. That was the wrong thing to do but I have to admit that I have a tendency to close up a bit when the barrage of questions and hurtful comments are aimed and fired in my direction. It sucks to hear them but I deserve to have to listen to them and be thankful I am still considered a running mate.

I cannot use my priesthood yet but Summer I appreciate the stuff you wrote as always. It lifted my spirit and provided a few gentle reminders about her perspective. Thank you so much I needed that.

Beclean, and the rest thanks for the cool words.

It all boils down to this fact: I need to be more humble, gentle, selfless, submissive etc.

Consequences are definately well understood from my side and I have long made up my mind to remain seperated from this gastly mess no matter what my future looks like as a family dude.

Here is how I feel about the worst possible scenario:

I would be so miserable because she is the most amazing girl, the dream girl man, beautiful, elegant and princessy in every way. When she is happy there is no better time in my life, when she smiles she lights up my life. I miss her happiness and miss her old bubbly self I so carelessly destroyed. She is the only one I ever really loved. She has such a desire to be righteous and is the best darn mother I could ever imagine. If only and I mean if only I was worthy and kept my covenants!!

Cheers guys God bless"
posted at 19:56:09 on June 1, 2010 by ruggaexpat
When is enough, enough    
"I ask the question because of all the pain caused by us addicts, how long do both parties keep trying to get the dream back. 1 yr, 2 yr or more ?"
posted at 18:11:11 on June 3, 2010 by Anonymous
What is your question, Anonymous?    
"How long do we keep striving for a renewed marriage with our eternal companion if both of us are working towards it? How long do we keep striving if only one of us is working towards it? Please clarify your question. Thanks."
posted at 18:27:40 on June 3, 2010 by BeClean
Good question    
"I ask the same long do you keep working in a marriage when you are married with an addict? Most on this site will probably answer as long as he is working on his addiction, so... even a lifetime??? I endured a ten year old miserable marriage with an addict ( I did not know he was). Now that he's confessed, he wants to work at it. But I'm no longer interested, realising that so many years of your life have been wasted is hard. You naturally do not feel like wasting more.... Furthermore, I do not know other addicts, but if you are all like my husband addict , he has a lot of emotionnal issues, that he has not dwelt with and that makes it difficult for people to be around (such as anger issues, swearing, or simple immaturityetc.). I can tell you, not the kind of behaviors that can win a woman's heart. So I ask myself the question all the time. WHEN IS ENOUGH' ENOUGH?"
posted at 20:36:53 on June 3, 2010 by Anonymous
My view    
"The dream of a pure love story untainted by sexual sin will never come back, it is dead which is why the spouse is so hard hit. I know this first hand. Summer this is the main reason for the PTSD symptoms I believe.

I will say this and it is my view, as long as the Lord has not said leave the fool, it is not over in HIS eyes. It can always be over in our eyes but our ways are not HIS ways. So I believe that we all keep trying to improve our mangled realtionships until the Lord says enough is enough.
Yes we have free agency and can say enough is enough but for goodness sake lets remember that we did not make covernants alone, the Lord was involved too. He is as important if not more in this process in deciding when we call it off.

As the addict I broke the covernant with my wife and HIM. They both kept theirs and both have a say in the matter whether this marriage lives to fight another day or not.

Sorry if I come across frustrated in this piece but I hear the divorce idea every day and I believe it is easy to say it but a hell of a lot more difficult to do it because the consequences (same principle as above) are scary, I know like most of the rest of you out there from first hand experience."
posted at 22:14:31 on June 3, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Anon #2    
"I hope I do not make an enemy but I bet you and my wife are really good pen pals. The next time you write to her please tell her that I love her and that I am sorry. Please tell her that like your husband I am doing what I can now to change. Tell her to hold on for one more second, one more minute, one more hour, one more day, one more week, one more month, one more year... Tell her I pray for her every day, night, that she will heal from her pain. Tell her she is beautiful, tell her she means everything to me. Write as soon as you can I beg you!!!

I hope you sense the urgency and the truthfulness in my text. I mean it, I know for a fact that any man or woman out there who is trying to change like I am may not deserve another chance, but we want that chance more than anything. It is what swamps our thinking. It is unrelenting and consumes every part of our day.

I graduated with honours from the graduate school of emotional retardedness and I am sure your hubby did too but I am seeking a serious career change and need my wifes support to make a smooth transition.

One final thing tell my wife I love her and am greatful for all her sacrifices."
posted at 22:38:35 on June 3, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Life Sentence    
"At some point, enough IS enough. The kind and gentle thing to do as a spouse that has been hurt is to decide if forgiveness AND love are actually possible. The Lord commands us to forgive and we must. He does not command us to love (in a romantic, sexual way). That is something he allows us to choose. If a spouse knows she cannot love a man anymore due to past infedelity, hurt, betrayal or whatever I think the most loving thing she can do is to let him go. Why make him endure a life sentence of anger, fighting, distrust? Just move on. Let both partners find someone they can feel safe and loved with and hopefully the same mistakes won't be made the second time around. And don't tell me staying together is better for the kids because seeing your parents fight and yell and act like they hate each other is a horrible example of what marraige should be. I know my own son once begged me to just get a divorce so there can be peace."
posted at 22:54:48 on June 3, 2010 by Anonymous
"In the briefest opinion I will ever share on this site, I think that each one of us, addict and loved one, is obligated to keep trying and to keep working at the perfect marriage for at LEAST as long as the other spouse is trying and working. If our eternal companion says he or she wants an eternal marriage AND he or she is obviously attempting to make it happen (making changes, improving, etc.), then we should also be attempting to make it happen (by making changes and improving ourselves).

I agree with RuggaExpat; it's not over until God says it is, and I personally doubt he'll say it's over while our companion is still working at it.

When our eternal companion stops trying to repent, forgive, and improve, THEN he or she is damning himself or herself, and THEN might be the time to ask God whether it's over. But even then, God might say, "Give it a little more time." Personally, as a sinner, I HOPE God (and my wife) will always give me just a little more time."
posted at 23:01:45 on June 3, 2010 by BeClean
A bishops council    
"After I found out about my husband I really struggled for along time with whether or not to get a divorce. I wanted one so badly. I didn't love my husband any more and I was lonely and sad and just wanted it all to be over. Yet I had covenanted with God to be married.I didn't want to risk the disfavor of God by casually disregarding sacred covenants. So I went to the Bishop for council. He told me that my husband had broken our marraige covenants and therefore if I divorced him the Lord would in no way hold that against me or condemn me for it. He told me that the Lord loved me and that because of what had happened to me the Lord would bless me whichever way I went. If I divorced, He would open the way for me and make things work out. If I stayed married, He would bless me to find a way to be happy. I don't think the Lord frowns on women that choose to leave in this situation. I really don't."
posted at 23:21:41 on June 3, 2010 by Anonymous
Gospel Library: Gospel Topics    
"The Church has published statements, magazine articles, and other materials on Divorce. This seems like it might be a good topic for many of us to study (myself included). Here is the link:

Once you get to that page, click on the links for additional information and some quality reading."
posted at 00:46:39 on June 4, 2010 by BeClean
Anon #3    
"So did you get a divorce or not?

Sure the Lord will not frown on a spouse in this situation but you did go to him and get his counsel through your Bishop. My wife was told a similar thing and so it is up to her just as it was up to you. But is it not important to make that final decision only after the Lord confirms it to you through his spirit? I don't know I am just asking myself such questions all the time. On the other hand the Bishop does not and cannot say ok time is up enough is enough, it is the Lord and the spouse that was my point in the beginning.

I still firmly believe though that with kids in the picture and the wellbeing of both spouses is it not important to get the Lord's take on such an important decision?
So did you get confirmation or did you just decide your own?
How did your husband turn out?

Anyone who did get a divorce here please comment. I am seriously interested to know."
posted at 09:31:07 on June 4, 2010 by ruggaexpat
"Anonymous 3 Here. Let me answer your question. I was called away from the computer last night and didn't get to finish my thought. As I was saying, the Bishop left the decision up to me. I went to the temple. I prayed. I thought about it.Long and hard. I decided that I wanted a divorce. I was just so miserable and didn't see a way out. I didn't see it ending any time soon. Every time I would discuss divorce with my husband he would get extremely angry. He would tell me how unChrist like I was and how cold and unforgiving. He would lay the guilt on thick about how I was destroying the lives of our children. He would tell me I was breaking sacred covenants. Ironic, much!? He actually had the gall to play the breaking of covenants card!? We had some pretty fierce fights. He was desperate to keep me. He told me he couldn't bear the thought of me dating and possibly remarrying or of another man raising our children as the "dad". The more we fought the more I came to despise him. I hated how he made me feel so guilty and worthless and UN-spiritual. I felt he was being completely selfish. A typical selfish addict that only cared about his own happiness and didn't care that I cried myself to sleep everynight or that I was so depressed and sad that I could barely function. I felt that if he loved me, he would want me to be happy and I so obviously wasn't. He was making it very difficult on every front. Finally, after months of fighting about the whole divorce issue, he came to me one night and we had our first calm discussion about divorcing. He told me that he loved me deeply and eternally and he always would even if I left him. He told me that he didn't want me to go but he loved me enough to let me. FINALLY, he said the words that actually made a difference to me. Instead of accusing me and guilting me, he simply told me that he would do anything to make me happy even if that meant giving me a divorce. He told me that it would destroy him but he wanted me to move on and find someone to cherish me. I could see how hard it was for him to say that. He's a jealous type and the thought of me with someone else about killed him. Again...the irony. He told me that he was sorry he failed me and he was sorry that he didn't make me happy. For the FIRST time in months I felt he was truly humble. So humble that he was willing to pay any price to put me first FOR ONCE. Even if it meant losing everything, his home, his children, his wife, he was willing to do it. For the first time in months, I had the thought...maybe he DOES love me. He went to stay with his mother. At first, it was so nice to have peace. No fighting. No argueing. It was lovely. Occasionlly, I would see him driving in his truck and I would feel a little twinge. I was starting to miss him. When that happened I would sternly remind myself what a jerk he was and continue on. I didn't want to miss him. But I did. He continued on with his humble attitude. Making my life as easy as possible. He was kind. He was sad but he was kind. Then i started to doubt my choice. He would send me texts letting me know how deeply he felt for me. Not texts begging for another chance or trying to make me feel bad. Just texts of regret and sorrow and apology..and love. Long story short...he won me back. It took a year but he won me back. He didn't do it by fighting and persuading and convincing me that divorce is wrong. He did it by showing me that he loved me so much that he would sacrifice anything for my happiness. He's truly a changed man. I wish I had time to write more. I really condensed the story. I guess why I posted in the first place is because I hate to see a woman bullyed into staying into a marraige that is toxic. I have a dear friend that actually did go through with her divorce. Her husband made her life hell and once she finally broke free from him she has changed completely. She's radiant with happiness. She has self confidence now. No one can convince me that the Lord frowns on her happiness and would rather she was still miserable and trudging along the road of life with her a-hole of a husband. The Lord loves His daughters and wants us treated with respect and dignity.AND He wants us to be happy. That's why I posted. And it's just my opinion."
posted at 11:11:58 on June 4, 2010 by Anonymous
Oh and one other thing...    
"I forgot to mention, when I was in the temple and when I was on my knees all those times trying to find out the will of the Lord I never felt any answer one way or the other. I think sometimes the Lord wants us to use our intelligence that HE has given us and figure some things out on our own. Like the Brother of Jared, He's not always going to give us a clear cut answer. I know I didn't receive one. He let me figure it out and I did."
posted at 11:39:07 on June 4, 2010 by Anonymous
Thanks for that    
"I needed to read this.

All about the husband changing I realize that.

It is just so hard for me to say go dear because the thought of her going (sorry to say this folks) scares the living snott out of me. I do want her to heal and I do want her to be happy but I really want to be side by side in the picture. I really love her. If she wants to go to regain her happiness then I must step out of the way and and mean it.

So much work to do on myself it is scary.
So much apologizing to be done.

What a ruddy mess."
posted at 12:52:33 on June 4, 2010 by ruggaexpat
You've got it right on the dot, anonymous #3    
"Thanks anon 3, what you have said is so on the dot. That's what I know I should do. Through all of this mess I have felt pressure from my husband and others to stay in this relationship because of the covenants, because the Lord would want me to be faithfull to my covenants no matter what. I have been so confused not understanding that a Loving Heavenly Father would want me to sacrifice my life away like this.
To Beclean, it is not enough to just be fighting, my husband tells me everyday he is trying so hard. No matter how hard he tries, he is still so selfish, inconsiderate and insensitive, making me miserable. I know he comes from a very spoiled and selfish family where he was not taught to care about others and he says he is trying to be a better man. But he is still hurting me... trhough his selfish ways. (No matter what a porn addict who continues even if he is better at it, it still hurts the family. ex, not to have a worthy priesthood holder in the home,etc.. "
posted at 15:59:23 on June 4, 2010 by Anonymous
Words v Works    
"Thank you, Anonymous contributors, for your heart-felt comments. What a terrible mess satan has made of all of our lives, but especially yours. I agree with you that a man or woman who truly loves his or her spouse should want him or her to be truly, eternally happy, and should be willing to sacrifice everything (except a personal relationship with God) to make it happen.

To the latest Anonymous: saying you are trying so hard and actually trying hard/fighting are two completely different things. I did not mean that two people are obligated to remain married as long as both SAY they are working at it. They must actually be working at it. No matter how imperfect my spouse or I may be, if we are plainly working wholeheartedly at repenting and improving, I believe the other one should hang in there and work wholeheartedly at the marriage, as well.

Thankfully, I have a wife who feels the same way. She is my dream princess, and she truly means everything to me. Without her constant, unwavering support and love these past many years, and without the grace and mercy of God...I don't know where I would be."
posted at 16:22:24 on June 4, 2010 by BeClean
"I think a key thing to remember is humility. If you are fighting you are not humble. Period. Even if you can back up your arguements with scriptures and quotes from the prophet and you have "right" on your side, if you are doing it an an angry or contentious way you are not being humble. As long as there is fighting there cannot be healing. Someone has to be the one to stop, swallow the pride and be humble."
posted at 16:56:41 on June 4, 2010 by Anonymous
Point of Clarification    
"When I used the word "fighting" in my post, I did not mean fighting with your spouse, I meant, "fighting your struggles, problems, temptations, addictions," and "fighting to keep your marriage together."

Of course fighting with your spouse is always the wrong way to show that you are trying to keep the marriage together."
posted at 19:10:58 on June 4, 2010 by BeClean

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"Freedom from your transgression will come through sincere faith, true repentance, willing obedience, and the giving of self. Why the giving of self? Because selfishness is at the root of your problem. Where selfishness and transgression flourish, the Spirit of the Lord can’t enter your life to bless you. To succeed, you must conquer your selfishness. When your beacon is focused on self, it does little more than blind your vision. When turned outward through acts of kindness and love, it will light your path to happiness and peace. "

— Richard G. Scott

General Conference May 1990