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Distortion... Confusion...
By Gondor44646
11/4/2009 8:42:02 PM
My God help me

Please be patient and understanding with me right now. I don't even feel comfortable texting to anonymous people because of this. I'm having a Stupid moment... Stupid... So I beg you people that you will forgive me...

I'm bringing back an old post of mine, one that I should not bring back, something that I thought was closed in my mind but somehow I have allowed the spirit of confusion to get to me.

...

perhaps a relapse, however I am back on track, I was 17 when I started going to this website, know I am 19... Hope my problem started with mast*, then por* ... 6 years now... but I am recovering...

I have a difficult question that has been bothering me. Please forgive me for asking such a question; I am not sure if it is appropriate...

I am confused about what is considered intimate and private in marriage... What is considered unnatural and impure?

I admit it 100%, I feel completely ashamed because these temptations are a direct result of my sin... Ultimately I feel the only clear answer I might receive is simply praying to God... I am hearing contradictions from other people ......

"If it is unnatural, you just don't do it. That is all, and all the family life should be kept clean and worthy and on a very high plane. There are some people who have said that behind the bedroom doors anything goes. That is not true and the Lord would not condone it."
- President Spencer W. Kimball

I know such a question is unanswerable in these terms I am assuming that any corruption I have noticed is through sin. and is not appropriate in marriage. I ask this question because it has been confusing me for a long time now...

intimacy in marriage is private... and is none of my business... the turmoil that I am having is within myself..

In the past, I seeked help from a counselor about my problems... However he didn’t think that mast* was a problem or a sin, natural and normal he said... I disagree, mastu* didn’t help me, didn’t bring me closer to God, lower self-control and spirituality, lovers of pleasure more than God... self-gratification outside of marriage only prepares you for self-gratification in marriage, and that is not its purpose... My counselor asked me a difficult question which only confused me... I didn’t know what to say... Does that show love between husband and wife? Does that fulfill the purpose of sex? I don’t know...

Although in addiction I admit loss of agency, I automatically assumed I was defined as a selfish perverted young man and I felt like I couldn’t change that... however it was the use of something natural and using it for bad, instead of for good.

Now I am extremely confused? Is this love in marriage?? Is this not self-gratifications, lusts, unholy, unclean, ungodly things? Is anything and everything appropriate so long as couples agree?! No...? Yes...? Everything goes as so long as you both agree?!... Could this not be as creative as the distortion and corruption that comes from porn!?...

God is not a house of confusion, but of order... I think there are unnatural things that are not worth mentioning...that are not right even in marriage... but this is not of my understanding, I am not married, and I need to Shut Up... that is just my opinion... I will continue to pray study and live the gospel standards so that I can find the answers...

No wonder why I am confused, sin has distorted my perspective... no wonder why this destroys so many families... I hope I can figure this out so that one day I can be a righteous husband, and a loving father... and so that I am not confusing Love between Lust.

That is all... Please forgive me if I said anything incorrect, inappropriate, or just not necessary... It is as it is, and this has been one of my stupid moments... I feel very selfish for inflicting this post up again

((Just so you know, I am actually doing ok again... On Day 7... I miss day 70 though))

Comments:

You're not having a stupid moment!    
"I know what you're going through because I'm also an obsessive compulsive addict. My disorder makes me wash my hands more often and for much longer than a normal person should, and it makes me feel sick when I have to shake hands with dirty people, or when I have to use a public restroom. I'm also sure that it contributes to my obsession with lust as well.

That being said, I can understand how someone with O.C.D. can get stuck on something particular and not leave it alone. I don't even know what to tell you about how to get better from that, since I'm not a psychologist, but I do think it might be an important step if you realize that your obsession with marital intimacy isn't your fault.

I'm glad you posted again, Gondor. I was worried about you. I thought maybe you fell asleep while driving your little brother to seminary and got hurt in an accident, lol.

Keep up the good work, I pray for you by name every day."
posted at 21:48:32 on November 4, 2009 by ETTE
That's not what I meant,    
"I took another look at my post this morning and realized the whole car accident thing could definitely be taken the wrong way. If we were talking on the phone it would have come off differently. I mentioned it just because my little brother used to punch me in the shoulder three or four times on our way to early morning seminary because I couldn't stop dozing off.

Another thing that I left sort of unclear is when I said that your obsession with marital intimacy isn't your fault. That doesn't mean you have an excuse to ponder and pray about it all day long, it just means you shouldn't beat yourself up for wanting to.

Speaking of pondering and praying, what do you mean you need to pray and ask God what's appropriate in marriage? That's one of the worst things you can possibly do. That would be like asking God which type of p~rn is the most sacred. I'm not saying that s~x in marriage is bad, but it is, in fact, bad for people like me and you to even think about it.

Maybe people who aren't addicted to lust can get away with thinking and talking about intimacy before they need to, but personally, I cringe and feel sick when I even think about it because all the images I've looked at pop into my mind, and I can't get them out.

Gondor, you need to learn to recognize lust, and then you need to learn to avoid it like the plague. Once you do, I promise life will get better.

By the way, I don't think anyone is upset or offended by your post, the reason you got strange reactions when you posted it a year ago was because people were worried about you. I care about everything you have to say, and I want you to know that if you ever need someone to talk or instant message with, you can reach me at ettealways@gmail.com."
posted at 11:02:52 on November 5, 2009 by ETTE
Marriage intimacy is sacared    
"I am married and I have a problem with p0rn and m@sturbation. President Kimbal was right in that quote that you put up there. Family life should be kept clean. And p0rn and lust corrupts the purity of marriage. It decreases your satisfaction for intimacy with your spouse. Right now I think the focus should be to make yourself clean and worth of a girl that you can marry in the temple. Its been my experience that you shouldn't be so worried about what is appropriate and what is not, and focus on being unselfish when the time comes. If you are unselfish and you AND your spouse are okay with something then that's between you two. You don't want to drive the spirit out of your home, and you don't want the influence of p0rnography to creep into your marital intimacy. I know from person experience the devastating results.

I agree with Ette, before marriage, thinking about these issues will just fan the flame of a s3xual addiction. Try to focus instead on the wholesome. I know that's hard, believe me, I know, but seeing how hind site is always 20/20, I think I would have been a million times more happy if I had followed this advice when I was still single.

I hope I didn't come across to harsh, I think sometimes when we write comments we write them for other people... and sometimes our writing is for ourselves. I kind of feel like my comment was more for myself, but take from it what you will."
posted at 11:20:49 on November 5, 2009 by adrastos
Me too!!    
"I’m confused too! I’m married to a man who has a history with pornography and masturbation. I don’t want to do anything that could trigger more curiosity for my husband. I wonder if certain clothing items are inappropriate…does that then turn me into an object?...becoming lust not love? And there is no way I will ever look like people on the internet do…I’m a real woman who has had 3 children. So by doing things and wearing things…and I being compared? Making it harder for my husband to remain clean?
Pornography causes confusion on what should be a beautiful thing between a husband and wife.
You are doing the right thing by working through recovery before you are married. I think you have probably figured out that marriage doesn’t solve this problem. I wish it did.
So glad you posted…I was wondering how you were doing. Congrats on day 7…You’ll get to 70 and beyond. You can do this!!"
posted at 12:52:45 on November 5, 2009 by summer
: )    
"I love you guys, ((and girls))...

Sorry I was down for a moment.

I hope one day I can be pure and virtuous..."
posted at 09:40:06 on November 6, 2009 by Gondor44646
My thoughts on Intamacy Confusion.....    
"Summer, I appreciate your concern. I have been working on this for a year now with everything in the open. I think my wife felt it to be her fault for quite a while and did what she could to remedy it. In some ways, I blamed her too. Which is sad but true. But here is what I found, at least for me.....

The feeling that are produced with my wife is completely different from the feelings produced from porn. It took me time to separate them...or better stated, it took me time to truly recognize that when I'm with her I should have feelings of love, kindness, caring, etc. When I am watching porn...well those are NOT feelings of love, kindness, caring, etc. As I pulled myself away from the filth, I began to better notice the difference. I began to see the role porn placed on the relationship. I expected my wife to bring to me the same feelings I received from porn. This is wrong. I cannot and should not be the same.

I was concerned the same as you...can I actually overcome this and be intimate with my wife? Maybe I should shut off everything. Something told me that it did not make sense. I am glad that I didn't because I would not have been able to separate and notice the difference of feelings I received from both. I actually took a few cycles of me stopping, falling again, stopping and falling again before I noticed. This, along with lots of prayer and pondering. To me, it was a revelation. I logically understood it should be different, but I did not understand it till it was pointed out to me by the Spirit, till I recognized the difference myself.

Now, when I am with her, I try ever so diligently to not allow the porn feelings to ever come to me, and I must say, I do not feel them anymore, nor desire them. For me, the biggest thing is to not allow anger or frustration to enter my mind when everything is not as I dreamed about earlier in the day. See, if I am getting myself worked up during the day (with filthy thoughts or porn), then I come home and the kids are crazy, my wife is tired and basically says don't touch me....well who's fault is it? mine. yet I would resent her and often would then turn to porn & m~ for relief because I had built myself up the entire day. Yet, if my day is full of good thoughts, drawing near to the savior, I come home and I am concerned for her well-being and not in a selfish mode.

She told me just the other day that there were times I would come home and maybe be a bit happy but she could see the love in my eyes and that was ok. Bu there were times that I when I would come home and she would feel that I didn't care who she was, I just expected things. Well, there you go. She felt it too when I spent the day with impure activites.

Gondor....this is why you must fix this before marriage. This is why marriage does not solve the problem. I don't think you should postpone marriage, but you must be aware of it in your life and not mix the two as I did for years.

Now Gondor, close your eyes....that being said does not mean we do not enjoy our intimacy. She wears clothes that are fun and we enjoy each other immensely. In fact, I can honestly say, that things are 10 times better now that I have stopped. I believe even in our tough situations, what occurs is between husband and wife and the two of you need to work it out with the help just being honest and concerned for each other. Neither should expect things the other is uncomfortable with (which again porn can bring). At the same time, both should have strong desires to express love to one another. I think if your spouse is deep into pornography, you may become that object. If he is staying close to the Savior, you are not. but again, every man and woman will be different. You need to talk and trust each other.

These are my thoughts. They were difficult to express so to not trigger another."
posted at 17:52:29 on November 6, 2009 by nyronian


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"If it were possible to make your road very easy, you wouldn’t grow in strength. If you were always forgiven for every mistake without effort on your part, you would never receive the blessings of repentance. If everything were done for you, you wouldn’t learn how to work, or gain self-confidence, or acquire the power to change. "

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General Conference May 1990