Dating, Courtship, and Boundries
By Matrix
6/7/2009 9:38:37 PM
So, I've realized that with my, ummm...problem, dating becomes a little different for me then it would be for most people. Mostly in the aspect that I need to put up more boundries then the average person (even though it'd probably be good for them). So I'm asking for help. I need ideas, hints, whatever that would keep me "good" when dating someone. I don't care how dumb they may seem, I want them all. I want to make it to the temple and make sure he gets there too. Here are a few of my ideas.

1. No touching anywhere where a swimming suit (plus shorts) would cover.
2. No passionate kissing...EVER.
3. Kissing will only involve a peck.
4. No sitting in a parked car for more then a couple minutes.
5. No being completely alone somewhere (meaning someone is always awake and nearby).
6. Get home at a decent time (aka before midnight or possibly earlier).
7. If "snuggling" WHILE SITTING UP, always keep hands showing meaning, if there is a blanket, keep both hands out.

Okay, that's all I can remember for now. I'd really appreciate the help. Thanks all!


Oddly enough    
"Oddly enough we had a fireside just last night with our bishopric answering questions that the youth had submitted. One question brought up just such a list from an article or somewhere. I will try to find it and post it later. One thing I do remember from the list is avoid the horizontal. Whether you’re watching a movie, having a picnic in a very public park or whatever, just never lay down together.

I think your #2 & 3 kissing rules are very wise. I never kissed anyone besides my wife. (I know it is strange, but true for a guy who almost lost his virginity to a prostitute. I’m a sexual addict; enough said.) I can't say for sure if I kissed her before we were engaged. I think it started just before, but after we were engaged we got into long passionate kisses; usually in her parent’s front room. I think she would have had enough resistance, but the only thing that saved me from pushing farther was that we had decided to have companion prayer each night before I left. There were many nights that I had to break and go to my corner. I knew I would be talking to Him soon and that just barely kept me in check. My sister-in-law had a three kiss rule all through their engagement which I think was a lot better.

The other thing you probably realize better than most girls is that guys are visually stimulated. Since I have never met you this may be totally unnecessary, but watch what you wear. Tight and form-fitting clothing can really get the guy’s engine racing even if you feel you are fine because you have coverage. I have also noticed many good LDS girls who show a little cleavage. JUST SAY NO! Short dresses and short shorts can be just as dangerous. You may not have enough willpower to fight off a rabid dog, especially if you like him. Girls want to be noticed, but they often don’t realize the signal gets warped in the translation process in the guy’s brain. He can be just like the cartoon character whose eyes pop out and steam comes whistling out his ears when the pretty girl comes by. Sad, but true.

That is my two bits for now."
posted at 18:00:07 on June 8, 2009 by justjohn
"My old bishop said the same thing about the horizontal, which makes complete sense to anyone. With the modesty thing, I always try to stay covered and do my best with not becoming porn to someone. It is an interesting issue though. Girls want to feel attractive and they want to attract boys but we have to watch what we wear as to not attract the wrong attention. It's hard. How I read your statement, even if it may not have come out this way, is that girls kinda need to wear baggy T-shirts and sweats all the time to keep boys comfortable. I like wearing something that is flattering to me but not tight enough that it looks like I need paint stripper to take it off but I also don't want to wear something that looks like I could easily hide a beach ball in it. It really is a hard thing to figure out. I feel for all those girls trying to look good but be modest to the actual terms of being modest, not their idea of being modest."
posted at 12:17:32 on June 10, 2009 by Matrix
Don't sweat the sweats    
"No, I don’t think you should have to wear clothes that are so baggy they make you look like an ameba:) Guys have to deal with the fact that girls have bodies. They just shouldn’t have to have it shoved in their face.

It is interesting though when I compare two families on my wife’s side that the girls in one are almost always a problem to be around. They are always in tight clothes. I was walking behind one once and noticed that even though she had two layers on top I could still tell what style of bra she had on. They tend to have the painted on tops you were referring to. They also tend to wear low-cut or shorter outfits which can be really problematic depending on position.

The other family has three older daughters, two of which tend to wear looser button-up type blouses which are very modest. The other one leans towards stretchy, form-fitting tops, but isn’t the problem that the girls from the other family are. I have been thinking about what makes the difference, and I think it must be a couple of things. Her outfits aren’t as tight and she really avoids the low-cut necklines.

You can save the baggy t-shirts, shorts and sweats for when you are exercising. But while I am on the subject, I think spandex should be outlawed because it only falls into two categories. Either I shouldn’t be seeing it, or I don’t want to see it!

Judging from your comments, you probably dress just fine. Like I said before, you are probably more aware than the average woman.

I think it was the modest niece who wears stretchy tops that was thanked by her prom date for wearing a modest dress. (No bare shoulders.) Then he told her, “Modest is the hottest.”

You are correct; girls have a tough job. You want to be fashionable and get the boys to notice you, but you have to do a balancing act. Is this attractive or enticing? It's a tough call."
posted at 18:33:06 on June 10, 2009 by justjohn
Set up rules with him    
"When I was dating anyone seriously I always sat down and made a list of rules with him, so that we were both on the same page. The lists look a lot like yours, someone always having to be around, we can't be alone together, etc. I even had a boyfriend where we didn't "touch" each other for a month so that we could prove that our relationship wasn't all about the "physical" things. It worked. The most important thing is to make sure that your not the only one who knows about your rules. If he doesn't know, and your an addict, then what's stopping you from making an exception for "that guy". I started having real issues when "the ring was on my finger". I think it was because we didn't tell roommates or parents our goals and rules, so things just sort of turned south. BUT that's what i would do differently... make sure EVERYONE you surround yourself with knows your rules... (well maybe not everyone ;) They don't have to know about your addiction, people (especially in UTAH) will praise you for making lists and having personal rules when your dating.


the thing wouldn't let me log in.. lame."
posted at 22:03:08 on June 10, 2009 by Anonymous
A couple of the lists and a question.    
"Matrix, I finally got the lists. Our bishop passed out a couple of the lists that they had read from the fireside I mentioned earlier. As I started reading through them I realized that neither of them mentioned the horizontal rule, so maybe that wasn't a part of any list. I also realize that you are beyond needing some of these suggestions. I think they may have been intended for youth who are just beginning to date. They were obviously beyond the maturity level of most of the deacons that I work with though! I will give you the lists in there entirety anyway. I think I will copy off this thread when it is done and use it for discussion with my kids as they get to the point where they need it.

That brings me to a question. I really liked Toes’ thought on sitting down and making sure you are on the same sheet of music with your significant other, and then letting others in on what you have decided. I have three daughters, one of them 17 and two fairly young. The 17 year old doesn’t date much, but that may be changing, and who knows how the boyfriend envelope might get pushed with the younger ones. One of them is very social and affectionate. I think this idea could be beneficial for any couple that is starting to date more steadily, not just for people old enough to be working towards marriage. I don’t want them to scare boys off, but I think they need to lay down the ground rules before things go far enough that they have to back off on behaviors to stay within safe rules. Once a line has been crossed it is hard not to cross again.

I was thinking of suggesting that they make their rules after a third date with the same boy. What do you two think? I would really welcome suggestions from anyone that would like to chime in. I realize that a lot may depend on the couple even. Some move very fast and some move quite slowly. Maybe it doesn’t need to come up until first physical contact has been made.

List #1 is by Gene R. Cook
Law of Chastity Guidelines
1. Never be 100% alone
2. Plan it out in advance
3. If necessary, run
4. A little bit will hurt
5. Obey the Word of Wisdom 100%
6. Select good friends
7. Avoid pornography 100%
8. Avoid impure/intimate language 100%
9. Avoid “natural man” tendencies 100%
10. Select wholesome music
11. Be 100% modest
12. Avoid necking/petting 100%
13. Think clean thoughts

Just a thought on #3; I like to call it “The Joseph Sprint”. It is just my personal opinion, but I think Joseph of Egypt found Potiphar’s wife tempting. Rather than staying there any longer and trying to persuade her that it wasn’t a good idea, he left. Since he was feeling a strong temptation, he ran instead of just walking away. I’ve always admired him for that.

List two was actually a diagram called “The Morality Triangle”. I don’t know the source. I think it was designed to answer the question of, “How far is too far?” I’ll try to display this in a list format:

Smile, Hello, talking face to face
A fond touch
Holding hands
Arm around shoulder or waist
Goodnight kiss
***The LDS Line*******************
Prolonged kissing, making out, or French kissing
Necking, kissing areas other than the mouth
Petting, touching private body parts

*ATW=All the way, ELUI=Everything like unto it"
posted at 10:50:29 on June 15, 2009 by justjohn
I Think....    
"I think setting up the boundries would depend on if you are actually going to date the person. Sometimes that would be after 3 dates, sometimes after 10. I think you'll know when it's appropriate to tell them. Oh, and I thought of another idea but I can't remember it now. Anywho, most suggestions would be very appreciated. Thanks."
posted at 14:29:21 on July 6, 2009 by Matrix
All well and good    
"I'm glad I clicked on this. This has always been a problem for me, too. I've tried to be good with so many relationships... my heart is too open and sets me up for the other stuff. Hard line to walk, even with my marriage. Well, I'm married because of my addiction, too...

Sometimes things just get taken the wrong way, also. You don't have to stop speaking to people and wear frumpy clothes... Some guys like that stuff, too, so you're hosed no matter what! Getting fat doesn't work either for the same reason. Confidence, or even the appearance of over-confidence when you're a chicken *% inside...

well, i've no room to talk."
posted at 21:59:37 on July 11, 2009 by ironsmile

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"I will speak briefly of the principle of repentance. How grateful I am for the understanding we have of this great principle. It is not a harsh principle, as I thought when I was a boy. It is kind and merciful. The Hebrew root of the word means, simply, "to turn," or to return, to God. Jehovah pled with the children of Israel: "Return . . . and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful . . . and I will not keep anger for ever. Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God." When we acknowledge our sins, confess them and forsake them, and turn to God, He will forgive us."

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