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some time has passed
By keepnclassy
4/16/2015 11:02:18 PM
I feel like I am always coming here when I am down so I wanted to write something positive.
I feel like I am moving in the right direction. I feel good, I feel happy. Maybe I am just ignoring the situation that I am in but if I cant change my environment. I CAN change how I react to it. I have been standing up and speaking out to my husband for the things I do not agree with. the we disagree road is less traveled and I am speaking my opinion, feels, wants, dislikes. And I am calling his actions what they are no matter his feelings, the situation or his trying to down play what happened. The big D has been thrown around a few times...I feel like my life dream was to have a traditional family. I would be devistated if it came to that. But truth be told this is not the family dynamics I want either...so trying to make changes for the better...I really do feel less weight on my shoulders maybe it is because I havent found any more history, my husband told the truth isnt looking at porn or he has gotten really good at hiding it. I pray that God will let it be known to me if my husband has a problem and I know he will in his time. So I choose to make me a better Mama, wife, daughter and friend. because I will ultimately answer for my chooses. I pray for you all that are struggling with an addiction or spouse that you can be brave and strong. Keep putting on foot in front of the other and it will get better.

Comments:

:)    
"I think I needed to hear that you are happy! Your story really is like my story and it's breaking my heart. I'm praying for you... It's kinda crazy because I feel a lot stronger today too. I speak up about what's going on and still even if the outcone is bad that I said something I still do it. Today I wondered if I was just emotionally numb.... I'm hoping not, I just hope its strength. :) have you read the article called "the invisible heartbreaker"? It's an ensign article that you can find on lds.org. I think it would help you. How did you discover your husbands addiction? How long have you known?"
posted at 02:09:22 on April 17, 2015 by Humbled32
finding out    
"My husband has not confessed to looking at porn...which really left me in an awkward position because at least if they confess you can move forward. and there was NO TRUST left not only from feeling like your whole marriage was a lie, everything you thought was, was not! I feel like he is a wolf is sheeps' clothing.
where to start....a little background info is that he used to download torrents...theses websites have bad pop-ups and redirects. He doesn't download anymore.
One day I was deleting history on his computer from inputting coke codes cause I didn't want to deal with his ranting...if by chance he looked in it. (bad on my part, I know)
I found just one thing in there and I took it to him and said did you do this. he said no that happened maybe twice.
Geez thinking back I don't remember a lot of the time line.
I was snooping one day and found google account history from 2 years back and there was A LOT of bad websites and searches. I am not a computer expert so I am not 100% sure how or where they came from but I know that they were on there.
I can say out loud that I am pretty sure he did it, the torrents did not do ALL of it...
I layed all my cards out on the table and showed him what I had found. cause he kept saying I was crazy (#1 line of a liar).
We have gone the rounds at least 67 times and he still wont confess...I figure one day he might. I pray that he will have strength, faith, courage and find opportunities to change.
I haven't found anything lately and honestly I am trying not to snoop because I am not the internet police and he has his agency to choose what he does and that is not my problem to fix, its his! And God will let it be know to me when the time is right.
and you know honestly I have learned a lot from all the research that I have done so I think that I will be more prepared for that time if it comes. I have grown a lot as well I was always really uncomfortable talking about growing and maturing but I have 3 awesome little boys and I think that I will be able to address issues as they grow better. I had no idea that porn was addictive, changes your brain or how widely used it is.
I never ever thought that I would have to worry about my husband with this kind of thing...so I have really become aware of a lot. I still hope that he is the man I thought he was but if I look at the facts and time frame I am pretty sure he has some things that he needs to work on and he wont until he is ready."
posted at 12:31:08 on April 17, 2015 by keepnclassy
how about you?    
"How did you find out?"
posted at 12:33:43 on April 17, 2015 by keepnclassy
in the mean time    
"I have turned a lot of my attention to the abuse. Because that is something that he can deny til his is blue in the face, but we both know what has happened and he can't tell me that wasn't him."
posted at 12:35:53 on April 17, 2015 by keepnclassy
Yeah.....    
"I have three kids too. I feel like we have so crazy connection here. It's pretty much a blessing to me! Other than my heart is broken. So he confessed his problem to me when I asked once. I feel like he is somewhat honest with things. I think I've gotten more things as time has gone on. What I found on his computer once listed so many websites. I had no clue about it! He later admitted confessed and whatever... I mean I can tolerate someone that has a legit problem but the abuse is unacceptable. We've been going to marriage counseling but hasn't reaped any good fruits yet! So as of today he is saying he is really sorry for the abuse and plans on fixing the problem. Same old story.... I've gotten quite sick of how I'm treated so I stopped making up excuses for him. I no longer hide the fact he is rude. It's helped a bit. I shouldn't suffer in silence! I'm not really afraid to speak up either. I mean at times I am.... Like I know it won't stop unless I comply but I will never lie about it even if it causes more problems. I've told my husband before, I know, you know, and God knows and that's all that matters. He can lie about it all he wants or even blame me but it doesn't change things. He will still be accountable."
posted at 13:28:18 on April 17, 2015 by Humbled32
What helps?    
"Tell me what has helped in your situation? Ive been trying to read about how to gain back power in this. I really just want to be able to be myself in my own home. Cry when I want, feel what I want, a haven from the outside world, a place where the spirit can dwell... I've started to do things a little different today. He frequently gives me "updates" women he sees thoughts about them, rude thoughts about me, temptations, acting out.... So today he has had a lot. I have given them no attention. I told him I don't want to know unless you've been unfaithful or broken a promise. Also, he will say an update to me I will say I have no updates up to this point. Haha. Yeah, I can have updates too! Also, I've distanced myself to some extent. I haven't offered my feelings and I'm not really lying about them because in this stage of the game I'm kinda numb.... So I told him today when he asked me how I was feeling that I was fine. Didn't feel mad or sad or unhappy. Then I said "weird". It is weird I don't feel at the moment but I'm actually thankful for it! What works for you?"
posted at 13:37:40 on April 17, 2015 by Humbled32
What a blessing    
"I love reading what you guys are writing and the support and sisterhood you've found.

Classy, I loved reading this. Stepping out of codependancy is when we see truth. Real truth and we surround ourselves with reality instead of false hopes and lies. You are totally doing that. You are looking at this and saying, "Well, this isn't what I wanted, but that doesn't mean that I am going to quit finding joy in life. I'll give it my best, be my best and control what I can control and that is ME!"

You ladies are such an inspiration."
posted at 23:25:47 on April 17, 2015 by maddy
I have a few questions    
"Classy, when he's finally honest with you, what will you say? How will you act? How does it end?

And what do you think he believes about how honesty will play out?

I sure wish all husbands were honest."
posted at 00:00:08 on April 18, 2015 by beclean
Maddy    
"Thanks Maddy! I really feel that about you when you reply to post too. I'm thankful that your experiences and advice you've offered. I'm truly thankful for everything you and wrote in response to me posts. It's nice because you tell it how it is and sometimes I really need and want that."
posted at 21:30:35 on April 20, 2015 by Humbled32
Be Clean    
"I will start here because I know this...
If we get to heaven and our life is played before us (not sure if this will happen) and that is when the truth comes out. I will not stay with him. I have told him this as well.
I have always been committed to my family....I also think if I confessed an addiction to Jesus he would not turn away from me. So I should treat my husband the same.
this is harder to write out then I thought it would be, my thoughts are scrambled.
Maybe now is not the right time for me to comment.
I have thought about it before though. "
posted at 12:38:08 on April 26, 2015 by keepnclassy
Thanks for the attempt    
"Classy, I'm glad you attempted a response, even if it was hard to get out.

I want to encourage you to keep thinking about it. You say you want him to confess, to be honest about his pornography viewing.

I believe he will be honest when it makes sense to be honest. He will be honest when the rewards of being honest are more enticing than the pain of continuing in dishonesty. He will probably not be honest before that time.

If he's OK with his current life, and if being honest will only result in a worse situation, then he'll never dream of going there.

That's why I encourage you to imagine what life will look when he's honest and to imagine what he thinks life will be like. I'm not telling you to change anything. I'm just encouraging a thought experiment. If he thinks life will get worse after honesty, there's little chance he's seriously considering coming out. For many addicts, life must be really terrible (we have to hit rock bottom) before we realize that honesty is our only hope for a better life."
posted at 18:20:21 on April 26, 2015 by beclean
What he said and a +1    
"I understand what Beclean is saying and I agree with him. I just want to emphasize the point that he made at the end....your husband being honest or not is NOT about you changing. You could be doing everything right and he may still not be honest with you....or vice versa.

My point is simply that please, please, do not ever think that you are the one that needs to entice him to honesty with rewards of a better life. Or on the other hand, to bring him to rock bottom with punishments for not being honest. Both are codependent behaviors. I've done both and I can promise it never works out for good we try to attach someone else's behaviors to our own or manipulate them with behavior....even if we can justify that we have good intentions.

You just do what is right and focus on Christ and He'll lead your head, your heart, and your actions. You are exactly right Classy when you say that Jesus never turns from us. In the worst moments of our addictions He is there. He never turns away and never even flinches and He knows it all. What you wrote was poignant and beautiful."
posted at 21:12:49 on April 26, 2015 by Maddy
Mrs Classy    
"I've been worried about you! I glad you responded. I love all your feelings, the good, the bad, the hard ones. Dont feel like you need to have a perfect response or always feeling great or always saying the right thing. I think part of writing in these blogs isn't to feel judged it's just a way to release your emotions. It's okay to feel the way you do, confused and all! Life is confusing. Marriage is complicated. Honestly I'm just happy to hear your response either way. It's also awesome too see such support and people who want to help each other. "
posted at 08:02:29 on April 27, 2015 by Humbled32
thanks Maddy    
"I appreciate your additional comments. I don't want to encourage codependence. No one can fix an addict but the addict himself (or herself) working with Christ. Spouses don't cause addictions, and they can't stop addictions.

Additionally, all of us should seek to avoid shaming addicts. Those who struggle with addiction rarely (almost never) need to be told that their actions are wrong and horrendous. They know it, and they feel terrible, which is why they keep it hidden. And these terrible feelings of self-hate cause them to act out over and over again. How can the cycle be broken? The addict must realize that God still loves her and that people will still love and accept her, even knowing everything about her.

We can't change or fix an addict. Still, as a society, we can help them want to change by making it clear that we accept them and love them, despite their addictions and mistakes.

I recognize the love and empathy I'm describing is extremely difficult. In fact, it's impossible for mere mortals. It's charity, the pure love of Christ, and it's a gift from God. I wish I had it.

There is someone renting a room in my home right now who is struggling with these same issues. They are not a member of my family, and I have never had feelings of love, attraction, or affection for this person. I'm finding myself struggling greatly to feel and show love, empathy, and acceptance as they continue in their self-defeating thoughts and behaviors. But I know it's the right path."
posted at 10:05:02 on April 27, 2015 by beclean
Cycles up or cycles down    
"You know what is kind of odd? I've never put some things together and listening to your post Clean made me wonder something.

My husband and I entered recovery at slightly different times. There came a phase of my life when I just stopped feeling anger or shame towards my husband when he relapsed. I detached. I felt sad for him because I knew it hurt him, but it didn't hurt me personally. I mean yes, I was hurt, but not because of him....I hurt FOR him in an empathy way. SOrry I am repeating myself, but I feel like I am not describing this well. ANyway, it wasn't long after that my husband started into recovery for himself. I've never considered that it was because of my changes that he correspondingly changed. When I cut that rope of attatchment I really cut it and claimed no responsibility for his good actions or his bad ones. It was all his.

When I read your post I thought...."I wonder if it help my husband when I stopped shaming him? I wonder if he felt more safe and that made it so he didn't fall into the cycle of self hate?" And then I instantly jerked away from those thoughts. Yes, I am sure it helped....but like a codependent trigger I went, "Woa Bessy don't start thinking you 'got him' to do it!!!" Anyway, it was just an interesting moment because of how little I want to own his choices, good or bad.

On the other hand, it really does go to show that what is best for us is also best for others. Cutting unhealthy ties from my husband is exactly what I needed. But I bet it was helpful for him to know that his messing up wasn't going to bring me down too. I hope that did lighten his load.

I think that good leads to good but inversely, bad leads to bad."
posted at 10:37:06 on April 27, 2015 by maddy
excellent thoughts, and I completely agree    
"You've hit on something.

It's important for the spouse/family/friend of an addict to cut certain ties and not let the addict's behavior control her emotions. It helps HER when she realizes she cannot control or change her addicted husband. All she can do is accept him. (That does not mean condone his behavior.)

Interestingly, it also helps the addict when his actions no longer seem to affect those around him. When he feels accepted despite his addiction, he sometimes gains the desire to change.

The spouse doesn't accept the addict in order to change him, and the acceptance does not change the addict. However, it provides an environment that is more conducive to change. The addict must then choose to change. But even if he doesn't, at least the spouse is no longer dependant on change.

Of course, I want to be extremely clear that there are times when an addict is more than just addicted, he is abusive. In such cases, the spouse cannot simply detach and accept. Abuse (a sin) is not the same as addiction (a weakness)."
posted at 12:03:26 on April 27, 2015 by beclean
Maddy    
"I also feel disconnected. It's kind of weird because Im not allowing myself to give in to things that I used to. How has that changed your feelings towards your husband? Do you still feel distanced? Do you keep yourself at a distance? I feel this way but at the same time I feel not close to him. I cannot have an emotionally intimate moment. Maybe my situation is different? I don't know.... I've completely blocked him out of this some how. I don't want this to ever change but at the same time I don't feel close and I don't feel like I can share my whole world with him. How do I fix this or can I?"
posted at 15:02:33 on April 27, 2015 by Humbled32
I don't know    
"Beclean, I loved everything you said. Every word.

Humbled, I know what you are talking about and I felt numb, empty and cut off from my husband for years at a time.

But the detachment that I feel now is really different from the disconnect I used to feel. I feel totally bonded to my husband now. I love him more than I ever have and I feel loved by him more than I ever have. I feel like our relationship is on a whole new level of friendship and intimacy. I will never understand how letting go of his behavior is what allowed me to really see him for who he is and fall completely in love with that person. Detachment brought intimacy for me. Strange but true. To me it feels a little like I am getting a small glimpse of what unconditional love is supposed to feel like. I don't love him because of what he does or doesn't do. I love him because he is him. And that means I love the whole him which includes his addiction. It's ok that he is an addict. It's ok that he isn't perfect. I love his imperfections as part of him.

To change gears though...I do not love my husband unconditionally. I have some pretty strong conditions in fact. Exactly like Beclean said, I would not condone or stick around if he decided to engage in certain behaviors. Abuse is a deal breaker. Period. Everyone has to decide for themselves where that line is drawn.

I don't want to make it seem like I have arrived in the promised land or something. Things are WAY better for us for sure, but we are not the poster children for recovery by any means. We have a long way to go and things are still hard. But I can say that I am happy now. I am in love with my husband and I feel cherished by him. There was a long time that I never even believed that I could feel that way. It is nothing less than a miracle that we have gotten to this point."
posted at 14:04:49 on April 28, 2015 by maddy


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"Develop discipline of self so that, more and more, you do not have to decide and redecide what you will do when you are confronted with the same temptation time and time again. You need only to decide some things once. How great a blessing it is to be free of agonizing over and over again regarding a temptation. "

— Spencer W. Kimball