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A Beacon to Mankind or the Biggest Fraud in human history?
By andrewb
6/4/2013 11:03:59 AM
I'm sure most people here have read or seen stuff about the conflicting issues with church history. Being at a weak spiritual state, I don't know if this is closing my mind off or opening the door that I have been missing my whole life. Being taught in church and all church videos that Joseph Smith was wrongfully accused of various things like polygamy, abuse, and stealing, it's hard to separate fact from fiction. The church falls or stands on the story of J.S. and all facts point in the other direction. Don't think of me as a serpent, I just need an explanation. If I don't have a testimony of the church, I won't read the scriptures constantly. If i don't read scriptures constantly, I won't have a testimony. It's a big circle.

Comments:

yeah, its true    
"Without knowing what is swimming in your head, all i can say is it is true. Now you ask me what is true, and how can i say that if I dont know what your question is??
In life, there is truth and light vs darkness and error. I have a testimony, and enough knowledge in my heart and experience in life to know that THIS church is true, and that THIS gospel IS God's. Therefore, yes, Joseph Smith was the prophet of the restoration, and all that he taught is of God. I have no doubt of that.
Please explain what you have heard. I would love to dispel lies from truth for you.
You recognize that are in a weakened spiritual state, which is a manifestation of your spiritual power. If you can recognize it, then you know that what is being told you is lies. It is like temptation or sin. Satan can tell you it is OK to do this or that because you were designed to do it. It was given to you to feel this way, so give in and enjoy life! What he is doing is telling you 9 truths so that you will go along with 1 lie. What may be your case is that he has told you 99 truths, so that you cannot discern 1 lie. He has your head swimming with so many things that you can't easily see the deception that is the root of your pain.
My mission president counseled against this once. He said go back to basics. Some things like knowing if the pearly gates swing or slide, do not provide salvation. Focus on the very simple basics in faith. Prayer, Faith, Hope, Repentance, Service, etc. Once you have become healthy again from a simple diet of known healthy things like milk and bread, you can then easily order a steak and be able to cut the fat things off the edges, or see if you have been given a bad piece of meat.
This is firm in my heart. THERE IS NO PART OF THIS CHURCH THAT IS WRONG! This IS God's! We are not supposed to take all apparent facts with perfect, knowledge, we are to take some with faith and truth is later manifest.
Think of the pioneers. When the crossed the plains, Salt Lake did not exist, and for forty years their temple was not yet done. But because of their faith, i was able to be married in it, and begin my testimony in it from a few years before that. Their faith materialized in fact. Your simple faith, can materialize into your salvation, and all your concerns at this time, will be very easily answered.

tell me your concerns and I will help you :)"
posted at 12:28:45 on June 4, 2013 by nowell29
yeah, its true    
"Without knowing what is swimming in your head, all i can say is it is true. Now you ask me what is true, and how can i say that if I dont know what your question is??
In life, there is truth and light vs darkness and error. I have a testimony, and enough knowledge in my heart and experience in life to know that THIS church is true, and that THIS gospel IS God's. Therefore, yes, Joseph Smith was the prophet of the restoration, and all that he taught is of God. I have no doubt of that.
Please explain what you have heard. I would love to dispel lies from truth for you.
You recognize that are in a weakened spiritual state, which is a manifestation of your spiritual power. If you can recognize it, then you know that what is being told you is lies. It is like temptation or sin. Satan can tell you it is OK to do this or that because you were designed to do it. It was given to you to feel this way, so give in and enjoy life! What he is doing is telling you 9 truths so that you will go along with 1 lie. What may be your case is that he has told you 99 truths, so that you cannot discern 1 lie. He has your head swimming with so many things that you can't easily see the deception that is the root of your pain.
My mission president counseled against this once. He said go back to basics. Some things like knowing if the pearly gates swing or slide, do not provide salvation. Focus on the very simple basics in faith. Prayer, Faith, Hope, Repentance, Service, etc. Once you have become healthy again from a simple diet of known healthy things like milk and bread, you can then easily order a steak and be able to cut the fat things off the edges, or see if you have been given a bad piece of meat.
This is firm in my heart. THERE IS NO PART OF THIS CHURCH THAT IS WRONG! This IS God's! We are not supposed to take all apparent facts with perfect, knowledge, we are to take some with faith and truth is later manifest.
Think of the pioneers. When the crossed the plains, Salt Lake did not exist, and for forty years their temple was not yet done. But because of their faith, i was able to be married in it, and begin my testimony in it from a few years before that. Their faith materialized in fact. Your simple faith, can materialize into your salvation, and all your concerns at this time, will be very easily answered.

tell me your concerns and I will help you :)"
posted at 12:49:11 on June 4, 2013 by nowell29
Doubt    
"First thing I can say is that it is okay to doubt. Because without it there would be no room for faith. So where are you exactly in terms of your desire to have a testimony? If you have desire then you must start at the beginning and then eventually over time things will fall into place. I would not worry about Church History just yet. The first principle of the gospel is Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ not faith in Joseph Smith or what he may or may not have done. I would start there if you have a desire to have a testimony of the whole thing otherwise just as you said, you will keep running yourself around like in a "big circle.""
posted at 14:15:04 on June 4, 2013 by rmatt
Thank You both    
"Those comments really helped me out. I don't know what I would do without this site."
posted at 18:20:16 on June 4, 2013 by andrewb
First: Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ    
"I hope I was of some help. Yes, there is a reason why "faith" is first. It is simple yet so VERY important. On one level it is a testament to the ministry of Joseph Smith that he would say that in the AoF before the priesthood, the Church structure, the Book of Mormon, revelation etc. But lets not talk about Joseph Smith just yet....we don't want to get ahead of ourselves. :)"
posted at 20:07:51 on June 4, 2013 by rmatt
The church never claimed to have perfect leaders    
"And that's what I love about it. Our leaders are very human, too, and even the prophets have led less-than-perfect lives. However, they are proof God can take the weak things of the earth to accomplish great work. If you have specific questions, I can also help answer. I have studied all of the anti-Mormon stuff I could find to discover the real truth of those claims.

(Spoiler alert: I'm still here because the church is still true.)

Good luck. Read the Book of Mormon -- it's a great source of strength in these moments."
posted at 02:18:01 on June 5, 2013 by johnroberts


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"If, through our unrighteous choices, we have lost our footing on that path, we must remember the agency we were given, agency we may choose to exercise again. I speak especially to those overcome by the thick darkness of addiction. If you have fallen into destructive, addictive behaviors, you may feel that you are spiritually in a black hole. As with the real black holes in space, it may seem all but impossible for light to penetrate to where you are. How do you escape? I testify the only way is through the very agency you exercised so valiantly in your premortal life, the agency that the adversary cannot take away without your yielding it to him. "

— Robert D. Hales

General Conference, April 2006