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POLYGRAPH TEST? BOUNDARIES HELP?
By momof5
9/5/2011 9:19:26 PM
Okay so I haven't blogged in a while but I have been feeling for a while now that I want to know if what my husband is the whole truth. I want to know that my husband just looked at pornography and never went further than that. So last night i asked him to get a polygraph test, well..... He was so mad and said he will not do it! He said he was done with the marriage and he left again for the 15th time in 2 months. So the story is my husband really isn't trying to recover because he told me after being addicted for 10 years in secret. He does not crave porn ever. He is done with it and will never go back. I think that he needs to certain things to stay in this relationship. I want to know what kind of boundary I could set for when he leaves. I have threatened the divorce thing and he really doesn't care because I have never gine through with it because I don't know how I would support 5 kids. But to be honest I am sick of him threatening that he is done with the marriage adn then leaving and coming back the next day like nothing ever happened. Will my realtionship ever be normal or am I doomed to have a horrible marriage forever? Please advice for both sides! Also if I got divorced and remarried again what if I picked a man who was addicted to porn again? WHY ME????????? I know so co-dependent but I just want a man to love and respect me not the porn or every other woman out there:( Also my husband still is verbally abusive in front of the kids I want to be done but am worried financially since I am a stay at home mom. But I want a man who will talk kindly to me not run me down:(

Comments:

Momof5    
"Boundaries are not boundaries when they are not enforced. They are simply empty threats. Are you saying that you want out of the marriage but are staying for financial reasons? Start working on a plan of financial independence. It is not easy but you have it in you. You may have more resources at your disposal than you think.

But...is your marriage worth saving? Is he in recovery? Are you in recovery from the codependency that you mentioned?"
posted at 23:21:03 on September 5, 2011 by Anonymous
funny you mention polygraphs..    
"I am trying to figure out what to do about polygraphs.

My therapist thinks they are essential to do right after formal disclosure. She said that most relgious people tend to not do them but doesnt know why.

My SAA sponsor thinks they are great as well and does one every year as part of his accountability.

My marriage therapist (lifestar guy) who I really respect thinks they have little value because a partner wont believe them if they dont want to anyways.

My wife says she doesnt want one either.

Im really confused. I think Im going to do it for my own benefit..

I would be suspect of any recovering addict not willing to do it because secrets are the basis of our damage. it's a reaganism -- "Trust but verify".

It's my understanding that I would get 4 yes or no questions. After a disclosure, the first question would be: Are there anything else related that was not dislcosed in the formal disclosure.

good luck"
posted at 09:44:23 on September 6, 2011 by Hurtallover
momof5    
"I don't post here much anymore.

Please read "love you hate the porn" it is the best book I have read and very helpful to me and my wife but more to me I think.

The author's discussion of the negative cycle is amazing!
Just what you may need"
posted at 12:55:45 on September 6, 2011 by ruggaexpat
MoMoF5    
"I say divorce but i'm a cynical jerk and wouldn't take my advice anyway. However, I would rather die then let someone walk all over me with no apparent intention of stoping like it seems is the case with your husband. Even a genuine show of humility somewhere in his attitude would change my opinion here but it looks to me, based on what little i've read, like he's pretty determined to manipulate you to his lame-o will and way of doin business...which obviously (in my abraded mind) is unhealthy for you the kids and himself.

Polygraph? Seems a little fanatical to me BUT, lets be honest - i'm the wacko. So, i'd just take my wife's word for it...unless I had something to hide.

Not to cause undue alarm but I'm telling you right now your husbands response is EXACTLY what I'd do if I was hiding something. I would attack you, out of fear, as if you were the bad guy. It's smoke screen (wiki smoke screen. interesting). You become the straw man ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man ) in my fallacious argument. I say this not hypothetically but, regrettably from experience. I've done it. Maybe not to the extreme your husband takes it but the same pattern to a T. And regardless of our excuses or wether we are hiding or not (we are hiding trust me) we are not justified in following this order.

If it was me the end goal is to get you to leave me alone. Forget about it till another day. Doubt yourself. Focus on other things. p.s. this doesn't have to be because i've done anything worse then I've admitted to you. I may just be hiding my insecurities, feelings, protecting myself from being vulnerable etc. Never the less it's all motivated by self preservation. Selfish as hell.

If this is a real boundary you want to set in order to feel safe (you deserve to feel safe sister. if he can't see that he's a dick) if I was you my goal would be to stay focused. Understand clearly my position. Recognize i'm attacking dis-ease not him. And display my focus and unwillingness to be deterred by anything especially manipulation/smoke screen/ad hominem/victim show case/"i'm so crazy i'll walk out and it's not worth your pursuit" type response. When I got that response I would simply and calmly re-iterate my position and apologize that it's upsetting but affirm that I'm resolute. I would be carful about asking why he's upset or indulging "his side" very much at all because it will just be an opportunity to attack me and distort from the real focus. I would simply reassert my aim. I would show and re-show and re-show again that, all though he may continually try to throw the ball back at me, in fact the ball is in his court.

One thing that comes to mind that may be a concern. What about details? If this came to the table for me right now all though I have been completely open about all my sins I would worry that details may be disclosed that I don't believe are good for anybody. I can tell my wife I had an affair but i'll be gd'd if she want's to know about the conversation I had with the gal at McDonald's. However!, if she really wanted to know i'd take a deep breath and figure "okay, it's your funeral" and tell her. Fortunately for me my wife knows she doesn't want to know as long as she knows where i'm at and who she's married to. Frankly I don't want to know those details anymore either."
posted at 09:45:04 on September 8, 2011 by they speak
+1 for They speak    
"I would do all the same things too when I was deep in addiction.. I think they call it crazy-making. You just need to know where you are at to feel safe. You dont know if he has gone further.

Make sure you understand your reasons that you want to do it and what you will do with the information. Maybe you arent going to do anything right away. It's your call.

If he has done more, is it a deal breaker? I know divorce is scary but you will manage somehone. Would you let him work on his addiction and still live with you? Would you stop having sex with him?

lots of stuff to consider. I'm told polygraphs are like 300 bucks."
posted at 17:05:11 on September 8, 2011 by Hurtallover
Agree    
"I agree to all the viewpoints above (except for the divorce thing).

I would do some research on divorce. I did. I have the online forms filled out almost. So, if he says he's leaving and perhaps leaving for good, I can have that already in place. I do know a few bits of advice I've heard from other women on divorce and what to do if you are thinking about it. For example, you get more child support if you don't work. You should NEVER leave from a marriage w/o the kids in tow (w/ or w/o an abusive spouse). You should keep records of all the things you do with the kids. Write down schedules, keep receipts, take photos of you with the kids. Hmm, I can't remember what else there is, but those were the highlights I remember.

I'm not raring for a divorce, but want to feel strong enough to be in "control" of my possible future I may be flung into by his saying he's wanting one (that's why this is anonymous - my first anonymous post). In fact, I just posted about strength and I'm still in for the long haul. I did give him a time limit though (after 2 Christmas')."
posted at 17:41:00 on September 8, 2011 by Anonymous
Polygraph???    
"I have read almost every recovery book on SA I can get my hands on. Every recovery book suggests polygraphs for SA recovery. My husband had one done with our 2 nd therapist although our 1st recommended it. I can say it helped me when I was spiraling and still in trauma to refer back to that polygraph questions (10) no details, but specific to our situation. 4 decades of lies. It has been almost 2 years since the first polygraph. Although the therapist recommended more frequent tests. Still even with much recovery effort and healing I feel I would like him to have another one. Why? Because I have learned that much of our (partners) recovery process is about recovering from trauma, and not so much about co-addiction. Although many of us display some co-addictive behaviors, most of our "unhealthy" behaviors stem from NORMAL responses to trauma, PTSD. One of the best recovery tactics for trauma is to have a feeling of Safety and empowerment . That is one very valid reason why boundaries are so Important for the recovery of partners. Thus, a polygraph will put the burden of accountability back on the shoulders of the addict and not the trust of the partner. This process also helps to build trust in the partner who's loss of trust is another painful loss that is the first to go and the last to return.

Spouses who I know that have made this a boundary as part of feeling
safe in a relationship with a SA, seem to recover faster. The couple recover faster. After all, many partners life's are at stake, and children's

parents. Children deserve at least one parent.


Divorce is not the answer. Strong boundaries with consequences that are inforced are the first and most important step to seeing a change in a partners life and thus effecting a change in the addicts life.

This is hard Momof5, but younger worth it! Your family is worth it, you are strong! Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost will support you and sustain you in your efforts. I know, I promise.

Good book, Your Sexually Addicted Spouse,..... Get support, with a support group and a sponsor....work the steps....consentrate on you.

Love and prayers,"
posted at 01:45:40 on September 9, 2011 by Hero
They Speak!    
"Speaks the truth about addict behavior and reasoning. Good to hear from you!"
posted at 01:55:34 on September 9, 2011 by Hero
Polygraph    
"I have never, ever considered a polygraph simply because it wasn't a thought I'd had, but this conversation has made me think about it. I would love to have them ask him if he has had an affair. I don't believe he has, but at some point, when you've been through so many shocks and so many lies that you didn't think were possible, you start to believe that ANYTHING is possible.

My husband has admitted to emotional relationships with other women and once allowing another woman to kiss him, but he denies that he has ever had any other physical relationship with someone else...It would be nice to have that question laid to rest so that I could be 100% sure and not 98% sure."
posted at 11:08:39 on September 9, 2011 by maddy
You need to heal Momof5!    
"Boundaries are the first step for your recovery. How to feel empowered in this relationship. What you need and deserve as a Daughter of God. What you need to feel safe.

Boundaries for if he leaves again. This is totally a personal decision but some boundaries that I have heard are:

If you leave again, You will find your things on the door step, the locks changed and you cannot come back until, you demonstrate by your behavior that you are serious about fighting this addiction. We are seeing counselors, each of us, and a marriage counselor, going to meetings that will support each of us in our recovery.

If you leave again, I will not be here when you return, you may find a babysitter, whom you can pay. I will return when you can show the respect that I need to stay in this relationship and our home, no porn, blockers on all tech equipment, TV, phones.

You do not listen when I am talking, I leave, go for a drive for an hour, shopping, or walk.

Do not consider divorce until you have gotten yourself into a position to support yourself and your children. Go back to school, or a vocational school. Buy new cloths for yourself, and children. Talk to an attorney or two to get advice on divorce. Have a complete knowledge of your financial situation.

You are an adult, your children need an adult, not a child that runs away every time there is trouble. You will be the first one to call hubby to accountability. He will fight it, all addicts do.
But, stay strong, you are worth it, your family is worth it.

Good luck and prayers."
posted at 12:47:12 on September 9, 2011 by hero
Verbal abuse    
"Somehow, in all of the SA talk, I ignored the fact that you said he is verbally abusive to you....AND infront of your kids. Momof5 - you know and I know that if he is willing to degrade you or threaten you verbally that he is not on a road to recovery. You need to be safe. I am not advocating divorce specifically because only Heavenly Father can answer that, but I am advocating that you protect yourself to an extreme level what ever that means. This cannot happen anymore. No more. Not ever.

Everyone here has given you a ton of ideas and I can't really add to that because they are so spot on. I would write up a list of the things that you will not tolerate and a corresponding consequence with a specific plan on how to go through with it. Then live it totally.

I think he got angry because he has something to hide, when you asked for a polygraph. That could be as severe as an affair or as small as a guilty conscious. Either way, he isn't letting his SA heal. That is his business...yours is protecting yourself.

In a way, you have all the information you need. Don't be afraid of the future. Make it beautiful. That is something you can control."
posted at 11:20:56 on September 10, 2011 by maddy
polygraph aren't as accurate as most people think    
"Having been in court ordered counselling in both a group and one on one setting I can tell you that in many cases a polygraph tests aren't as accurate as people think. They are relatively easy to manipulate and lie in. I had many friends who took the tests in their therapy and most of them told us in group that they lied during them and we never discovered. I'm not saying they don't work, just that with a little research and practice they are very easy to pass. I really think that a spouse of a SA should remain very close to the Spirit and let it guide them in regaining their trust. I believe that the Spirit is very capable of being the "'polygraph" that the spouse needs in order for the other to know if they are staying true to their promises and living as they should. This is just my opinion from my experiences with 40+ years of being a SA and a drug addict. I have learned to stay close to my Father in Heaven and let Him guide my wife and I in handling my addictions. My prayers are with you all in your recovery and in dealing with your loved ones in recovery. May God bless you always. Thank you."
posted at 14:33:53 on September 11, 2011 by Anonymous
Polygraph and a wife's intuition    
"Dr. Doug Wiess offers polygraph test at his clinic in Colorado. According to his extensive research using polygraphs, he says that the wives are 90% accurate with the test. Meaning when wife has a suspicion and her husband is tested, her feelings are dead on 90% of the time.

I have never used the polygraph. Never felt the need to have my husband tested, I know if I wanted to have him tested he would have no problem with that. The real problem is that some people will just not come clean. Some what to believe they can get away with something .Where there is nothing to hide, there should be no problem in taking the test.

Really Mom of 5, I think you already know deep inside you what the truth is. you may not know all of the details, but you know the truth. Keep praying for truth and I know the Lord will show it to you. You must keep your eyes open and you will see.

Praying for you."
posted at 15:57:44 on September 11, 2011 by Anonymous
Assuming the polygraph is accurate, too.    
"There's a reason polygraph tests are inadmissible in court. They are infamously inaccurate. They more often times give false-negatives than false-positives. Can you see how damaging just one false-negative would be to building trust in a relationship?

I think all this business about the polygraph is over-the-top. I don't see it as a productive tool. It seems more like a harbinger of distrust. Does the spouse even feel any better after the polygraph? I think they would simply focus on the fact that there's a chance that the addict found a way to beat it. The addict is either in recovery or he/she is not. If they are recovering, their actions will speak for themselves. There are no quick fixes for gaining back trust.

Spouses, I am not saying to just trust your addicted husband. Quite the opposite; Don't trust him until he has shown by his actions that he has become trustworthy. And that takes a long time."
posted at 18:05:08 on September 11, 2011 by Anonymous
True    
"We must all remember to pray for our answers. For some a polygraph is important. Sometimes just the willingness to take one is helpful. You know, when a husband is willing to do anything to be right with his wife, that kind of thing.

At the end of the day, we must all remember that there is no substitution for personal revelation. Also, there are no secrets beyond this llife, and none of us is promised another day on this earth. The truth always comes out.

Stay close to the Lord and he will lead you to the place where you need to go. "
posted at 18:27:13 on September 11, 2011 by Anonymous
Hmm. sounds like the polygraph test isnt your real question    
"So hes obviously being manipulative. His leaving is just to get you to cave in and do what he wants. Hes not REALLY going to leave. Honestly it doesnt sound to me like he has repented. Are you going to have to live with an imperfect marriage for the rest of your life...well, to that question the answer should be obvious. OF COURSE you are going to be in an imperfect marriage for the rest of your life because you are in an imperfect world married to an imperfect person. Now hopefully he will start changing for the better, and maybe at some point you might think about getting divorced and if you do the church might allow that. But just know, if you DO get divorced and he has not committed adultery then you are sinning. Tough doctrine I know, but its the truth."
posted at 01:42:21 on September 14, 2011 by Porojukaha
Porojukaha,    
"You said, "But just know, if you DO get divorced and he has not committed adultery then you are sinning."

I don't think any woman on here who is considering divorce hasn't completely thought out the repercussions. With your line of thinking, a woman should stay married to a husband who continually beats her or abuses her children as long as he is faithful. I just have to respectfully disagree with your statement. But I get the gist of your post and do agree with the rest.

On a side note...welcome to the site!"
posted at 01:54:15 on September 14, 2011 by Anonymous
He is committing adultry- God does not play word games    
"Remember your covenants. It is clear that indulging in Porn is adultery. look it up."
posted at 02:07:35 on September 14, 2011 by Anonymous
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS    
"I really appreciate all of the comments on here. So I did put up some boundaries and I will stick to them. My husband refuses to take a polygraph test so I will never really know the whole truth. But I do know that no matter what my heavenly father loves me. I finally understand what all the women on this blog have been talking about when they say detach!!!! I have to pray every day and try every day. But I am working on myself and giving my husband over to GOD. Is porn considered adultery according to our lds standards I am just curious if anyone knows? Also I am hoping my husband chooses his family over the porn forever:)"
posted at 13:22:09 on September 14, 2011 by momof5
Oh wow    
"Its been a while since I have been online. How crazy your life has been. I am so sorry!! You are always still in my thoughts and prayers.
I have had several discussions about things like this with some friends/therapists. No one can know your husbands heart as well as the Lord can. Praying and fasting and all of that is very important. However I have recently had this break through where I KNOW that I have to decide what I want- not what anyone else wants- and start down that path. Even if that means divorce. Walking by faith and the Lord will guide you. It may just take bigger and longer steps for your husband to know you are serious. You don't have to file. But a safe place would be separation. You would have time away from his yo-yo emotions and you could focus on you for a while. He will either realize that he wants you and the kids over everything or you will learn that you want/need to move on. None of this is easy. I am so sorry.
Much love!!!!"
posted at 14:15:41 on September 14, 2011 by faith21


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"By emulating the Master, who endured temptations but “gave no heed unto them,” we, too, can live in a world filled with temptations “such as [are] common to man”. Of course Jesus noticed the tremendous temptations that came to him, but He did not process and reprocess them. Instead, He rejected them promptly. If we entertain temptations, soon they begin entertaining us! Turning these unwanted lodgers away at the doorstep of the mind is one way of giving “no heed.” Besides, these would-be lodgers are actually barbarians who, if admitted, can be evicted only with great trauma."

— Neal A. Maxwell

General Conference May 1987