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need an explanation
By blindman
8/1/2011 2:08:30 AM
I have a question. It may seem simple to many of you, but what I am looking for is the deeper meaning. I completely understand why pornography is damaging, that part is obvious to me. I do not understand why masturbation is wrong if it occurs alone, does not progress to anything else, but is simply used as a stress reliever or a means of self-pleasure? Can anyone give me an answer?

Comments:

That is a great question.    
"I think it may have to do with it being an unnatural use of a Divine gift."
posted at 07:01:21 on August 1, 2011 by Anonymous
Great userID....    
"For me, masturbation is part of the chain reaction. As Latter Day Saints, we are called upon to watch our thoughts, as well as our deeds. Rarely did I masturbate, but what I didn't have images running through my brain either of things that I had done, images I had seen, or fantasies yet to be fulfilled. Using porn and masturbating are always accompanied by lust and fantasy which are the matches that ignite the flames, which leads to the explosion...no pun intended.
By keeping masturbation in check, I know that I won't give in to the lust and fantasy that make me want to engage in other, equally harmful activities. I don't know if you are married or single, but I have also found that abstaining from masturbation makes my sexual relations with my spouse 1000 times more fulfilling. I don't have to fill my mind with fantasy just to get the job done. I'm not using masturbation to deal with my stress, frustrations, loneliness, fatigue, anger or whatever the emotion may be that i'm running from. We talk more, and I work through my feelings instead of hiding from them and using MB as a release, which leads to better sex....sorry if this is too blunt for some."
posted at 08:54:29 on August 1, 2011 by chefdalet
Words of Prophets    
"President Kimball taught, “Masturbation, a rather common indiscretion, is not approved of the Lord nor of his church, regardless of what may have been said by others whose “norms” are lower. Latter-day Saints are urged to avoid this practice. Anyone fettered by this weakness should abandon the habit..."

He goes on to teach, "Prophets anciently and today condemn masturbation. It induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life."

D&C 1:38 - "What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same."

God himself has told us that masturbation is wrong and most certainly not a worthy behavior of a priesthood holder, regardless of whether it is accompanied by pornography or not. How can there be any more question about it?"
posted at 10:42:44 on August 1, 2011 by paul
Paul,    
"Call me rebellious, but I have never been good at following directives from my parents, especially when they followed it by, "BECAUSE I SAID SO!""
posted at 12:52:44 on August 1, 2011 by Anonymous
Good answers    
"I am not looking to start contention or anything, I am just curious. I find that I learn a lot better when I figure things out or learn something for myself with help from others, rather than just doing things because someone, even a prophet or a parent, says its bad. There are some things which I am very capable of learning through others' experiences and do not have to try, but other things I either have to try it out to see why it is wrong or harmful, or ponder about it and think about what it may lead to.
I am well aware that prophets have said masturbation is wrong and we should not do it. I respect that for some people that is enough for them to say I will not do it. I believe that it is important for each of us to find out for ourselves the truthfulness of any and all statements made by the prophet. Yes, we can follow him and simply have faith that he is leading us in the right direction, but I feel that if I never test his words, how can I know for myself? Yes, prayer is an essential tool in this process and it is important to strive for the company of the Holy Ghost.
Perhaps I simply have not been listening, am too stubborn, or just looking to justify my behavior, but on this particular issue I want to know for myself. An answer as simple as "the spirit told me that masturbation was harmful to me and that I should leave it alone" has been in my mind for a while. I just want to know why?
If someone says don't touch a hot stove just because I said so, that doesn't explain why. Even if they add that it will hurt, that doesn't explain why completely. If they were to explain that the high temperature is sufficient enough to burn your skin, muscle and fatty tissue, will leave you with scars, and possibly even impair your movement and sense of feeling in that area for the rest of your life, that is enough for me to understand why.
I guess I just need someone to explain things to me in a way that really makes sense so that I can finally say enough is enough, I know this is harmful to me, this is why, and I am going to stop.
Your thoughts and comments are much appreciated.
Thank you."
posted at 13:29:12 on August 1, 2011 by blindman
Not trying to be argumentative...    
"As President Kimball said, "[Masturbation] induces feelings of guilt and shame. It is detrimental to spirituality. It indicates slavery to the flesh, not that mastery of it and the growth toward godhood which is the object of our mortal life."

Those do seem like pretty good reasons to me. If that is not enough reason for you, then you certainly have your agency to "learn for yourself." That is, in essence, why we are here.

You can test President Kimball, or even Heavenly Father, at their words. But I will put my testimony here and promise you they were/are right. Wickedness never was happiness and there are always consequences for sin (loss of spirit, lack of spiritual progress, shame, pride). One day, maybe not in this life, you will also find the truth in their words.

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I have no object other than trying to save you some pain."
posted at 15:10:16 on August 1, 2011 by paul
Second Paul's Testimony....    
"In spite of my many explanations and logical reasoning, I will second Paul's testimony. Trust those of us here who have been down the road. Like any addiction, MB is part of a cycle that needs all of your inner strength to give up. It's just a temporary fix to a problem that Heavenly Father has given you the power to overcome. Educate yourself, work the steps, trust the Lord, pray mightily! 643 days now, I've not MB or looked at porn....I feel free and more worthy to enjoy Heavenly Father's blessings than ever before. Use the wisdom here. This war is win-able."
posted at 16:33:55 on August 1, 2011 by chefdalet
I don't believe in blind faith.    
"The followers of Warren Jeffs practice blind faith and never questioned the reasons behind the child abuse that was going on. I don't believe Heavenly Father gave us a mind and will to not exercise sound judgement. And that requires asking questions. Don't worry. The gospel of Jesus Christ can withstand the scrutiny. It is by asking questions that we get the context to incorporate spiritual principles into our lives because the good answers are spiritual. Like chefdalet said, it is wrong because it is spiritually dangerous. It is a law because our Heavenly Father wants to guide us AWAY from harm, not because He is a punitive and restrictive God.

I believe if you haven't asked yourself the same question yet, don't be so prideful to think that you may not ask it somewhere down the road.

Blindman, I think your question was a good one. I thought chefdalet's answer was right on the money."
posted at 16:34:22 on August 1, 2011 by Anonymous
My take..    
"Paul, I struggle with blind obedience as well. I think I know how you feel. I do believe that commandments are based in good science but we might not have the perspective to understand. That being said, I'm realizing that sometimes obedience is the right answer. Here's my comments from the "Book of Hurtallover" :-) your mileage may vary.

Dr. Weis (addicted.com) talks about 2 different mechanisms for masturbation. The first is mindless and physical only. The 2nd involves fantasizing. He claims that #1 type is mostly harmless and #2 is very harmful. However, I personally am unable to just do #1. It always falls into #2.

I think it's a lot like drinking and the word of wisdom. A beer or a glass of wine a day might be good for you. But no one I know only drinks 1. I think the word of wisdom keeps us from falling off the ledge. the Lord just said .. No alcohol.. then He doesnt have to worry about us parsing how much is too much and then losing ourselves to #2..

Here's why I think #1 masturbation type isnt good.

1. Reduced functionality for wife. Chef is right on.
2. You program your body so it responds better to yourself than to your wife.
3. It's poor stress relief -- It can literally be like taking a hit of heroin.. Same hormone release in the brain. True stress relief involves processing the stress , understanding the stressor and doing something about it. Not doing this leads to addiction.
4. It's freaking impossible to not move from #1 type to #2 fantasy type.. It's playing with fire!


I could come up with some more given some more time.. hope that helps"
posted at 18:11:38 on August 1, 2011 by Hurtallover
Agreed    
"I totally get what you're saying blindman. I've struggled with just knowing it's wrong because someone, even a prophet, said so. I will join in with the others though and say that it is harmful. For me, it has always leads to more, and sooner or later to sex. I have had periods of time where masturbation is just a physical thing without lust or fantasy, but that never lasts either. So I've decided that right or wrong it's bad for me."
posted at 22:25:36 on August 1, 2011 by dstanley
Agree    
"I agree with the reasons above and realize that there is SO MUCH more to it, as the others have touched on, but FWIW when I read your honest question, "Why is masturbation wrong?" my instant, simple answer was:

"Because it is addictive.""
posted at 11:15:59 on August 2, 2011 by maddy
Thanks    
"Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment on this topic. All of your answers have been helpful. I tend to isolate a lot and I dont discuss my thoughts with others, so getting some feedback from you has been an enormous help. I believe this has helped me realize that whether or not masturbation is good or bad, it is harmful to me spiritually and will keep me from getting to where I want to be. Thank you again to you all and I wish you the best in your own efforts and trials. God bless."
posted at 14:44:07 on August 2, 2011 by blindman
good stuff to think/talk about    
"for so many years the shame of masturbation held me captive.. so great to feel free to talk about it openly (even if it's only online)

your name 'Blindman' makes me think of that funny idea that masturbation can make you go blind. Clearly... there has always been a tremendous amount of shame, secrecy, false ideas about masturbation. I have wonder what God thinks about it... at times... giving 13 year old boys and girls the power to create life. Surely he is very forgiving when kids (and adults) are learning how to harness this wonderful gift.

I think it's sooo funny that NOBODY wants to talk about it! people will say every cussword before they say the M-Word. ha! I'd say 95% of men have done it at least once in their life.. and probably 50% of women.

Joseph Smith said, "... A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things, never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation; ..."

"When obedience ceases to be an irritant and becomes our quest, in that moment God will endow us with power." Ezra Taft Benson

I don't view masturbation as an addiction to stop per se... but more of an energy to channel.

spencer kimball, talking about the 1rst of the 10 commandments said

Whatever thing a man sets his heart and his trust in most is his god; and if his god doesn't also happen to be the true and living God of Israel, that man is laboring in idolatry.

so... for me.. masturbation has been a false god... along with

Diet Coke, sugar, money, career, etc...
the list goes on and on.

"we worship those things that we think will GIVE US LIFE." so much of my journey in recovery has simply been about stopping those things that do not provide LIFE and doing more of those things that give me life...

and with all of that said... I actually think masturbation is probably ok within a marriage at times...but only if it is focused on your wife/husband. I think especially for many women, orgasms are particular hard to achieve with 'assistance'.

I do NOT envy the brethren in creating disciplines, rules around this... such a hard thing to create a hard and fast rule about!"
posted at 20:00:53 on August 2, 2011 by gracefull
good stuff to think/talk about    
"for so many years the shame of masturbation held me captive.. so great to feel free to talk about it openly (even if it's only online)

your name 'Blindman' makes me think of that funny idea that masturbation can make you go blind. Clearly... there has always been a tremendous amount of shame, secrecy, false ideas about masturbation. I have wonder what God thinks about it... at times... giving 13 year old boys and girls the power to create life. Surely he is very forgiving when kids (and adults) are learning how to harness this wonderful gift.

I think it's sooo funny that NOBODY wants to talk about it! people will say every cussword before they say the M-Word. ha! I'd say 95% of men have done it at least once in their life.. and probably 50% of women.

Joseph Smith said, "... A religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things, never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation; ..."

"When obedience ceases to be an irritant and becomes our quest, in that moment God will endow us with power." Ezra Taft Benson

I don't view masturbation as an addiction to stop per se... but more of an energy to channel.

spencer kimball, talking about the 1rst of the 10 commandments said

Whatever thing a man sets his heart and his trust in most is his god; and if his god doesn't also happen to be the true and living God of Israel, that man is laboring in idolatry.

so... for me.. masturbation has been a false god... along with

Diet Coke, sugar, money, career, etc...
the list goes on and on.

"we worship those things that we think will GIVE US LIFE." so much of my journey in recovery has simply been about stopping those things that do not provide LIFE and doing more of those things that give me life...

and with all of that said... I actually think masturbation is probably ok within a marriage at times...but only if it is focused on your wife/husband. I think especially for many women, orgasms are particular hard to achieve with 'assistance'.

I do NOT envy the brethren in creating disciplines, rules around this... such a hard thing to create a hard and fast rule about!"
posted at 20:02:07 on August 2, 2011 by gracefull
Sin and addiction    
"Hi,

Very interesting discussion and I would like to add my perspective on this subject,

Masturbation can be viewed as a sin (religious terms) and as well an addiction looking after lust, there is no masturbation or pornography addiction, it is only a sexual addiction

What is a sin, it is simply a transgression of the law of god, act of rebellion etc...

Remember an addict will always try to minimize, finding excuse to do so and hide.
is it okay to masturbate? from my point of view, not at all and because of my addiction I have to fight"
posted at 01:24:42 on August 3, 2011 by mike81
Adam and Eve    
"I have to admit that I have done very little research on this topic. I was one of those kids that was told it was wrong and I accepted it. You asking this question really made me stop and think.
I can see where you are coming from. That has to be really difficult to try to figure out. The one thing that came to my mind as soon as I read your question though was how God created Adam and Eve and told them to "cleave" unto one another. If everything in intimicy is meant to be a sacred and spiritual experience- then I can feel that masturbation would be more of a selfish act as it is only one person participating.
From the point of view of a wife whose husband deals w/porn and mb- I can say that it truely makes me feel that I am not "enough" I mean if I can't satisfy him then I feel guilty and like something is wrong with me. Maybe that would be answer enough- it hurts your wife and it offends the Spirit. Two people you don't want to be without.
Prayers coming your way!!"
posted at 00:21:25 on August 7, 2011 by faith21


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