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More thoughts...
By mcr285
10/30/2006 10:24:02 AM
I was commenting on Andie's most recent post and I told her how I plan on making it in this life with or without my husband. I figured I should explain that here. I have been reading so many blogs from LDS wives (all over the internet) that talk about their husbands addictions, and how hard it is on their husbands to fight this addiction, and how understanding the wives are trying to be because their husband slipped because he is addicted, and how supportive the wives are when their husbands went a whole week without giving in to their addictions . . . etc. Where do you draw the line between being supportive of your husband and enabling your husband???
I don't want to leave my husband. I don't want a divorce. But I also don't want to stay married to a man who isn't capable of leading my family to the Celestial Kingdom. I don't want my daughters to grow up believing that the only thing they have to offer a man is their bodies. The world teaches that evil lie enough, I don't want them to learn it from my husband and his bad choices. So how long do I wait for him to change? How many times do I let him screw up?
I know we're supposed to forgive no matter what. But does that mean I have to condone or accept his behavior because it's an addiction? Do I have to stand back and watch him mess up his life (thus messing up my life and the lives of my daughters), or can I step in and DO something about it? I've read many times that wives are not in charge of their husbands repentance, but aren't we partners with our husbands in bringing our families to the Celestial Kingdom? If our husbands are falling off, (straying off, wandering off, leaping off), of the path, are we (wives) not responsible for helping our husbands get back onto the path?
I understand the concept of trusting in the Lord, and I do. I also understand the concept of "faith without works is DEAD, being alone." I trust in the Lord. I have faith that He will help us. But I also believe the Lord helps those who help themselves, and if I want to save our family, I have to let my husband know that his behavior is unacceptable in our marriage, and I will NOT tolerate it, addiction or not!
I have a serious problem with the word "addiction." It is a word that seems to give more power to the problem. It is a word that seems to bring to mind excuses more than solutions. It is a word that induces helplessness and phrases like, "I couldn't stop myself..." or "It wasn't my fault..." or "I tried, but..."
I like how the General Authorities and the Prophet talk about it. They do refer to pornography as addictive (and they certainly know more than any of us!), but they don't call that an excuse. I think that is the difference between men who are so close to Heavenly Father and those of us scrambling everyday to keep building our relationship with Him.
I think I've rambled enough for one day. Again, please give me some guidance or advice because lately I've been feeling a little overwhelmed and lost!

Comments:

have hope    
"When I first found out about Te's addiction, I told him that I would be there to help his as long as he was trying to overcome it.

I agree with you that sometimes the word addiction makes it seem like they can't help it, or they shouldn't be held accountable for their actions. Elder Russell M. Nelson gave a talk in the late 80's about drug addiction. I think part of the talk is quoted in the 12 step program (my husband wrote something that quoted him for step one- i posted it on this blog) he says that addiction surrenders later freedom to choose. Once we choose to do something, like in this case, view pornography, we give up our agency to choose not to look at it the next time.

That's not to say that it can't be overcome, just that it is very difficult and we can't overcome it on our own.

I think you have to honestly assess how much your husband is willing to do to overcome his addiction. It took Te several "tries" before he was willing to give up his pride and admit that this wasn't what he wanted for his life.

Each time he'd go back to pornography (or at least each time I found out about it) it hurt me so much. I wondered if it was worth it.

I finally decided that: 1. There is no guarantee that a life without him would be better than a life with him. 2. He wanted to be a good husband and a good father (and in every other way, he was), he just didn't know how to let go of his addiction. 3. I had made a promise when I married him to work for an eternal marriage. 4. I loved him.

I know someone who told her husband that if he ever messed up again, she would take the kids and leave him, and he would never see any of them again. I understand why she reacted this way, and for them it seems to be working, but it wouldn't have worked for Te. He would have just felt like he couldn't be honest with me.

Pornography addiction is horrible for everyone. If your husband is willing to work on it, it's a good sign. Attack it in every way you can think of. He can't do it by himself, and neither can you.

Visit regularly with the bishop, go to counseling, go to the support group meetings, read scriptures together, pray together. Have family home evening.

I know you said earlier that it was hard to cram everything in. It's okay to let some things go a little. Maybe write in your journals on sunday instead of every day. You have to figure out what you can do, but make sure you are doing the essential things.

I have felt overwhelmed and lost quite a bit. The times I feel that way are the times that I am trying to deal with it all on my own. Let Heavenly Father help you. Even if it's a short two-second plea for help that you say in your head as you are going about your day, let Him help you. Ask him for help.

Now I'm rambling... I hate that I have had to deal with this. I hate that my husband has chosen to compromise our family like this. I don't know why or how it started, but it did, and there's nothing I can do about that. I just have to keep going, doing the best that I can and hope for a better future.

On the end I'm at now (not that there is ever really an end- but there's more breathing room than there used to be), I feel more hopeful that I used to. Te and I are closer than we have been in a long time.

"
posted at 14:15:11 on October 30, 2006 by sophie
Patience and progression    
"Repentance is a lifestyle, not an event. I have always felt that once I "conquered" my addiction to pornography that my potential would be unchained - that I would become some sort of spiritual giant. I felt that somehow it was only this addiction that was holding me back from achieving spiritual greatness. While I do not consider my self completely free from this addiction, through the grace of God I have made more progress than at any other time in my life. While I have indeed felt a greater measure of the spirit, my progress has taught me something. I am not suddenly a spiritual giant. I do not call down revelation upon demand, I do not suddenly have a constant and innate desire and ability to serve my fellow man. I am still me, although a slightly better me. Rather than my progress leading me to recognize my own greatness, I have instead realized my own multitude of weaknesses. I've realized that I have no shortage of sins, and I never will. I therefore will always have need to repent. Line upon line, and precept upon precept, the Lord will continue to teach me if I allow Him, and there will always be something for me to overcome - even if it means overcoming something more than once.

Sometimes we progress so slowly that is is only through comparison to a previous point that we realize how far we've come. I once told my children that they grow a little bit every day. For the next few days, they wanted me to measure them to see how much they'd grown from the day before. Gradually their excitement turned to frustration, then apathy as they realized that their daily growth was immeasurable. We put a measuring chart up on their wall. Looking back, they now can see the inches they've grown, even though they never felt themselves getting taller.

I don't know your situation or how long you've been working on this with your husband, nor do I know your husband's heart. I wonder though if you are frustrated at not being able to see immediate and permanent change. I worry that your frustration may turn to apathy. Look back a month, six months, a year, several years and get out the spiritual yardstick. Have you progressed? Have you and your husband learned things about each other and about yourselves since then?

For myself, and I am sure my wife would agree, when I look back to when my wife and I first married I am astounded at my spiritual immaturity. My wife and I felt like we had the strongest love and relationship possible when we married, yet it has grown immensely since then. I wonder how it could possibly grow more, but experience has taught me that it will. We've had setbacks, we've had challenges. Sometimes we took a step forward and two steps back. But overall we have certainly progressed. Now we are not as concerned about where we are as in the direction we are going. Are our decisions helping our progression or hindering it? Overall are we moving forward?

I don't mean to say that you must endure this trial forever. Certainly that would not give us much hope. It can be overcome. We can move past it. But it is a process - one that needs to be measured in steps of progression, not in complete and instant conquering.

The phrases you used are interesting to me - "I couldn't stop myself", "It wasn't my fault" etc. Sophie once quoted her husband in saying that addiction surrenders later freedom to choose. The scriptures and living prophets tell us as much. We made bad choices that got us into this addiction, and by doing so have sacrificed a portion of our agency and given the adversary power over us. Sometimes if feels like our addictions choose for us. But our agency is never truly gone - through the atonement of Christ and by excercising that same agency that led us into trouble, we CAN overcome. But WE can't do it alone. Elder Hales gave a wonderful talk on this concept, specifically as it relates to addiction - See "To Act for Ourselves -The Gift and Blessings of Agency" in the May 2006 Ensign. Pornography IS an addiction. But you are right, that does not make it an excuse. I may be addicted to cocaine, caffeine, or prescription drugs, and nobody would doubt that it is a powerfully addictive substance that is difficult to overcome. But nobody is going to tell me that it's ok to continue to use drugs simply because they are addictive.

Finally, I apologize for my own hypocrisy in what I'm about to say, but I do it in a spirit of helpfulness, and as a reminder to myself. You mentioned that you plan on making it in this life with or without your husband. Ask yourself, would you make it if it were not for your husband's addiction? Is your husband's addiction the only thing keeping you from the celestial kingdom? Is it possible that through this process you will grow just as much as your husband as you work to overcome your own sins and shortcomings? Do you need the healing power of the atonement just as desparately as your husband does? Just as your husband's addiction is not a valid excuse for him, don't let it become your excuse. Please don't take that as downplaying the pain, hurt and frustration you've had to endure because of your husband's bad choices.

Well, it's been my turn to ramble on - I apologize. I guess I haven't written for awhile so I'm getting a lot out now. I hope the things I write don't bring offense. I sincerely hope and pray for you and your husband and for both your individual and your collective progression.

"
posted at 15:11:59 on October 30, 2006 by josh
thanks sophie...    
"Thanks Sophie. I think it's important to let other spouses know and understand that what works for one isn't necessarily going to work for another! I felt like the biggest loser in the world when I first read through your other blog (Trying to Heal) a couple of months ago. I thought, "There's no way I can live up to those standards!" And it really discouraged me. I'm not one to hold a grudge, but this has been REALLY hard to deal with. How in the world could I possibly measure up to those glamorous and sexy women he's been looking at and lusting after??? Oh, it's easy, just get me a nutritionist, a nanny, a personal trainer, lyposuction, implants, a good dye job, my own portable airbrush artist - one with magical powers so he could get rid of the flaws in real life - and a couple of hundred million dollars!!! Yeah. Why is it that a woman can see beyond the surface, but a man can't? Why are so many men all about the temporal gratification instead of the eternal rewards???? Why is it they see a tiny bit of cleavage and they're instantly drawn to it??? Why are they such idiots sometimes???
Sorry, I had a sudden onslaught of negative thoughts jump into my head. Lost my train of thought completely. Happens sometimes.
ANYWAY, I appreciate your comments and advice. I really need it, and I'll take everything I've read today and really give it some serious thought and prayers! Thanks again!
"
posted at 16:06:26 on October 30, 2006 by Anonymous
Thanks Josh,    
" This may seem strange, but I know without a doubt that finding out about my husband's problems was a direct answer to my prayers. Less than a week before I found out for sure that he had a problem, I was thinking about my feelings towards my husband, and I realized they were full of negativity and anger and really lacking in trust. At the time, I really didn't know why I was feeling that way. I prayed that the Lord would bless me to be able to love my husband fully and completely so that we would be able to progress further. We went to the temple together right after that. A few days later, my whole world fell apart. And yet, in the midst of all the pain and sorrow, I could feel the love of my Father in Heaven and of my Savior more clearly and more strongly than I ever remember feeling in my life. Josh, you are absolutely right. We would not make it without having gone through this pain. That's not to say that we couldn't have made it without this problem though. It's true that our relationship with eachother, and with Heavenly Father was getting more and more unstable as time went by (hence my prayer to more fully love my husband). But would it have been so unstable if he had been faithful to his covenants from the beginning? Would we have been heading down that rocky path if he'd always been honest with me? Would I have been so full of doubt and anger if he hadn't been hiding this huge ugly secret from me? I really don't know. You are right though, I do have a hard time acknowledging my own sins when I get so focused on his. "His are so much worse than mine!" is the thought that used to come into my head ALL the time in the beginning, and it was really humbling when I finally came to the realization that a sin is a sin. There's no such thing as big sins or small sins. We all desperately need the atonement no matter who we are, or what we have or have not done. "
posted at 21:11:46 on October 30, 2006 by mcr285
answers to prayers    
"It seems kind of funny in a sad way, although I know it was a huge blessing for where it has led Te and I, but the last time I found out he had been lying about his addiction was the fast sunday that I had been praying and fasting to be able to trust him more.

I'm sorry my blog made you feel bad. Just take into account that I am not likely to write when I am having a really bad day. I usually write when I feel like I have learned something that has helped me get past the really bad day. :)

We are all just doing the best that we can, and no one can expect any more from you, so don't set unrealistic expectations for yourself. It's normal to be hurt and angry.

I had an institute class once about the life of Christ. One of the classes I remember the most was when Jesus threw the money changers out of the temple. He was angry. But afterwards, he showed an increase in love. He blessed and healed people.

I've always tried to remember that. If there is something that I feel angry about, I can show an increase in love. I can try to do little things to make my husband's life a little better, and soon the anger doesn't feel so overwhelming."
posted at 09:31:13 on October 31, 2006 by sophie
about measuring up...    
"I forgot to say...

The really wonderful bishop that Te and I met with years ago, besides telling me that a little kindness goes a long way, also told me that this had nothing to do with me.

Pornography is not real, it's not something that an addict actually has. You and I are real. We are wives and mothers. We share good times with our husbands and we share trials and grief. We comfort, we love. Those are things that pornography will never do.

It's so easy to fall into the "if I looked like that...this never would have happened". It's not true. The addiction has nothing to do with us. It's all satan's lies."
posted at 09:37:35 on October 31, 2006 by sophie
Just a thought    
"I don't believe ANYONE is better off having gone through pornography addiction or its effects. It would be SO MUCH better for all of us if we were not dealing with this (husbands, wives, families, everyone).

I am so grateful for where my family and I are right now. I am so glad we are doing so well now. BUT, how much better off would we be if I did not have this addiction? How much farther along would we be if I hadn't made those choices and slowed/stopped our family's progress?

People come to Christ in loads of different ways. But, as is said in the Book of Mormon, it is much better to humble one's self than to be compelled to be humble."
posted at 12:39:21 on October 31, 2006 by doanair
DENIAL IS DANGEROUS.    
"I agree with DOANAIR. NOBODY should have to go through this. You people are in denial saying this is making your relationship better. How is it better? Your spouse LIED to you for as long as you have known eachother. How do you know they aren't lying now? Pornography ruins relationships. Nobody wants to be intimate with their spouse after they've been cheated on, and pornography IS cheating. Anyone who says they trust their spouse after pornography is lying. People who look at pornography are selfish, selfcentered, and self absorbed. Telling yourselves you can't quit because you are addicted (see mcr285 above) is crap. You won't quit because you are too self absorbed to really look at eternity. You think everything is going to be okay because of the Savior's attonement? You are taking advantage of the atonement. Saying you know if you act out again the Savior will be there to fix it all is saying you know the Savior already paid for the next millions of sins you'll commit so you might as well commit them. That isn't sincere repentance. I think you should give your spouse an ultimatum. If they do love you, then they really won't have to worry about those moments of weakness. They really won't come home looking like they've been through the ringer. They really will see the mold and the worms crawling on the breadcrumbs. What it all boils down to is do you love God more than yourself? If your spouse is going to keep lying to you, and continue acting out, then you should leave. They obviously don't love God enough to quit. If they don't love God enough, then they really don't love you enough. Your friend is right Sophie. If you had told your husband from the start that if he acted out again you'd leave him, maybe he wouldn't have felt so free to keep doing it. You might not have had to go through so much pain. The principle of repentance goes like this.
1.) acknowledge your sin
2.) Feel sorrow for it
3.) FORSAKE your sin
*from Gospel Principles: "Our sincere sorrow should lead us to forsake (stop) our sins. If we have stolen something, we will steal no more. If we have lied, we will lie no more. If we have committed adultery, we will stop. The Lord revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith, 'By this ye may know if a man repenteth fo his sins - behold, he will confess them and forsake them' (D&C 58:43."
4.) We must confess our sins
5.) We must make restitution
6.) We must keep the commandments of God
Twice in the process it says we need to stop committing the sin in order for repentance to be sincere and complete (steps 3 and 6). Derek said repentance is a lifestyle not an event. You interpret that as saying for the rest of your life you can keep repenting of the same sin. Why? What makes you so special that the repentance process doesn't work the same for you as it does for other people? Because you say you are addicted? You have twisted the gospel and the atonement and everything the prophet and other authorities have said to meet your own selfish needs. Your kind of thinking is dangerous. Your website is dangerous. It is a crutch to anyone who doesn't really want to give up pornography. DOANAIR, MRC285, I commend you. "
posted at 08:47:44 on November 1, 2006 by Anonymous
judging    
"Anonymous, I don't think it is very fair for you to interpret other peoples feeling and experiences. The Atonement is a very personal experience for all of us and I don't think it is wise for you to say that people don't understand it. It is very complex indeed and there is much to learn about it. I feel like Nephi when he said in 1 Nephi 11:17 I know that [God] loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things. I do know that God loves his children and only God and our Savior know our hearts. It would be unwise to claim that you know others repentace process and the change of their hearts. You bring up some good points though. Thank you for sharing some of those insights. "
posted at 09:09:53 on November 1, 2006 by Anonymous
Whoa, be careful...    
"Anonymous, I respect your comments. I would respect them even more if you had posted UN-anonymously. But either way I will reply to the things you have said. I feel to quote Pahoran "And now, in your epistle you have censured me, but it mattereth not; I am not angry, but do rejoice in the greatness of your heart ... My soul standeth fast in that liberty in the which God hath made us free."

I don't think ANYONE of us has EVER said that we are grateful for the wicked things we've done or the way we've hurt our spouses and families. We HAVE said that we are grateful we are finally learning how to apply the atonement in our lives. And we have said that we have learned to be grateful for the God-given WEAKNESS which makes us humble (NOT that addiction which results from us giving in repeatedly to our weakness).

You say "Pornography ruins relationships." You also describe very accurately those who look at pornography. All of this is SO true. However, to say any spouse should just leave and trust can never be restored is to deny the power of the atonement. The Savior didn't only suffer for my sins. He also suffered for my wife's broken heart and broken trust. Just like he can heal me from my sins, he can heal my wife of her broken heart. You say "You people are in denial saying this is making your relationship better". Again, to say that is to deny the power of the atonement. I KNOW and my wife will tell you too, that our relationship NOW is far better than it was 6 months ago when I began my repentance. Does she trust me? Not yet. My motto has become "Trust takes time to establish, an instant to destroy, and a lifetime to rebuild." I will spend the rest of my life rebuilding trust with my wife. But our relationship IS better now because there is honesty. She knows all of who I am. And she still loves me! She has struggled immensely. SO, SO much. I didn't JUST give in to pornography. My addiction progressed to the point of adultery. So believe me, my wife has struggled immensely. But I have SEEN the power of the atonement work in her life also AND in our marriage. So PLEASE don't tell me our relationship is not better. You obviously have not had the same experience and haven't allowed the Savior to heal your marriage. His power to heal is infinite. He can heal your addictions, your broken heart, your marriage, IF you let him.

Without having gone through addiction you cannot say "They really won't come home looking like they've been through the ringer". You obviously have no idea what it is like to work to be free. "Addiction surrenders later freedom to choose". THAT IS A FACT. The only way out is through working with the Savior. Only he can free us, but that doesn't mean we never struggle. Most of us have spent the large majority of our life participating in this vile practice and it becomes an actual physiological addiction harder even to overcome (according to the alcoholics and drug addicts I've met who have also struggled with p~rnography) than alcohol or drug addiction. Am I saying it can't be done? Absolutely not. I personally haven't looked at pornography since the day I confessed to my wife over 6 months ago. I have felt the change in my heart that's taken place as I;ve allowed the Savior to heal me. But that doesn't mean there are not hard days, when I REALLY have to rely on the Lord and HIS grace, because I just can't do it on my own.

You say "Derek said repentance is a lifestyle not an event. You interpret that as saying for the rest of your life you can keep repenting of the same sin." Umm, NO, YOU interpreted that as saying I can keep repenting for the same sin for the rest of my life. I NEVER said that. I said repentance is a lifestyle, because if you have truly repented, it AFFECTS your lifestyle. You make LASTING permanent changes in your life. Nowehere did I EVER say you could just keep repenting for the same sin forever. Repentance is also a lifestlye because I have to repent EVERY DAY for something. If you think you are EVER free of sins that need to be repented of or "done" repenting you are sadly mistaken. So repentance IS a lifestyle because I should ALWAYS be repenting (not of the same sin).

Finally, you say "Your website is dangerous. It is a crutch to anyone who doesn't really want to give up pornography." Obviously you have never had to recover from an addiction. Blessed are you. I truly wish that I had never made the choices I did for my weakness to become an addiction. However I did. And it is a FACT, that writing is one of the KEYS to true and lasting recovery from addiction. How is my website dangerous? It enables writing about the scriptures and about our recovery as ways of helping each other. Where are we saying, continue to sin and all will be well? NOWHERE and I resent that. I have no doubt that your intentions are good, but you know NOT whereof you speak. Please HONESTLY read the posts. HONESTLY evaluate what you are reading and you will see that NOBODY is preaching returning to our own vomit as the way to repent. Everything is focused on Jesus Christ as our lifeline, our Savior, our redeemer, the ONLY ONE who can rescue us from the evil choices we have made. And that's really what Jsoh's statement of "would you make it if it were not for your husband's addiction" is all about. The bottom line is that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US MUST LEARN TO RELY, TRULY RELY, ON THE SAVIOR AND THAT IT IS ONLY THROUGH HIM WE CAN BE SAVED. My wife has always been innocent and pure and I honestly don't think she has ever INTENTIONALLY sinned. But she cannot be saved BY HERSELF! EVEN with her relative perfection, if she didn't learn that she NEEDS the Savior and that He is truly THE ONLY WAY, she would not make it to the celestial kingdom. ONLY through Christ. Not through her own righteous living. That is what Josh meant. Ultimately, his wife needed HER test, to see if she would lay everything at the feet of the Savior and rely on Him to heal her. Now, does that mean Josh's addiction is the only way that could have happened? Absolutely not and none of us who have subjected our wives to this would say that. All of us wish our wives didn't have to suffer at our hands. But what Sophie's saying (AND MRC285, and Josh's wife) is that they've realized the OPPORTUNITY this provides them to truly benefit from the Savior's atonement. The old adage about what do you do with lemons. Sophie and MRC285 have chosen to make lemonade.

The bottom line is that we ALL NEED THE SAVIOR. From the tone of your reply, it sounds like you are very angry. YOU NEED THE SAVIOR. He can heal you. He can heal your heart and your spirit. Let him!"
posted at 09:42:12 on November 1, 2006 by derek
Wouldn't it be nice...    
"if everything was so black and white.

If pornography addiction was as simple to overcome as you have said (and really, it would be so nice if it was), the church would not need to hold 12 step meetings, or produce a recovery guidebook.

You do what works for you, and stop judging how other people deal with the difficult things this life presents to everyone.

It's so easy to get caught up judging and so hard to remember to have compassion."
posted at 09:54:46 on November 1, 2006 by sophie
Anonymous you really didn't get it!    
"I didn't say I was going to leave my husband! I said I DON'T WANT TO. I said I DON'T WANT A DIVORCE. I just was asking if anyone knew where the line is between enabling and being supportive. You sound a lot like I did when I first found out about my husband's problem. I was very angry and very bitter. I don't feel that way anymore. I really don't know how I would react if my husband were to come to me and say he screwed up again. I think if it were in those first couple of weeks, I might have grabbed our daughters and left. Since then, I've really been able to see the change in my husband. He really has been working hard to change. What kind of wife would I be if I didn't acknowledge that? Like Sophie, as long as my husband is trying hard and is willing to change, I'm willing to give him a chance. How many chances? I don't know. Hopefully I won't ever have to find out. I think it comes down to trusting in the Lord. Only the Lord knows the intents of our hearts and I'll just have to rely on Him and His guidance.
The world teaches us that pornography is "normal." Some experts even say it's healthy. I visited several sites before I found this one, and in those sites, I was encouraged to JOIN my husband and watch pornography with him. I was told that what my husband is doing is harmless, wasn't hurting anyone, at least he isn't actually having an affair, etc. I know there are many lds members who believe that President Hinckley and the General Authorities are old, old fashioned and aren't keeping up with the times. The world, and the lds members who are swayed by the world, are DEAD WRONG. It is easy to see though, why there are many lds out there, who don't feel like pornography is that big of a deal. And those are the ones who don't feel the need to change. And that is where I do believe there should be a line. I don't think repentance is an absolute thing you do one time. I don't think it's something you should do over and and over and over again for the same sin, either (if you keep repenting of the exact same sin, repentance does tend to lose it's sincerety). But I also don't think it's up to anyone but the Lord to judge how sincere your repentance is. And that is where I have to learn to rely on the Lord and His guidance to figure out where that line is. Anonymous, stick around. You need people to talk to and that is what this site is for. We need to support eachother and uplift eachother. I appreciate and understand your point of view, because I really was there not too long ago. "
posted at 10:27:04 on November 1, 2006 by Anonymous
it did it again!    
"okay, what am I doing wrong here? I keep getting logged out and my posts become anonymous!"
posted at 10:31:09 on November 1, 2006 by mcr285
Back to MCR...    
"I've thought a lot about trying to change someone. I know that I can't change my husband. I can be here to support him though. I think someone trying to overcome any addiction is more likely to succeed when they have a good support group.

I can do everything in my power to keep the spirit in our home. If he forgets to read scriptures, I can remind him. Sometimes for me, it's easy to just not read "this once" then it turns into more and more times of not reading, until we just don't do it anymore. The simple act of sitting up in bed and grabbing my scriptures is all it takes for Te to sit up and grab his scriptures too, and he has done the same for me at times.

The main thing I have asked Te over and over again is to please not lie to me. If he acts out, I will be hurt and sad, but if he lies to me about it I will be hurt and sad and angry. I can't support him if he doesn't let me.

I think it was really hard for him to let go of the mentality where lying was somehow protecting me from pain.

In my experience, problems become worse, or reappear when we are not doing "the little things". I know it's different for everyone, but for me, enabling my husband would be to give up doing those little things that are essential for keeping the spirit in our lives. So I push him sometimes to do what he ought to do, and he gets irritated a little until he remembers that those are the things that he wants to be doing. It gets to the point where I don't have to remind him so much anymore, which is nice.

"
posted at 10:44:01 on November 1, 2006 by sophie
I can tell it's you    
"It's funny how people have such distinct writing "voices".

It's frustrating that you keep getting logged out (it's happened to me once or twice I think) but I've been able to tell it's you."
posted at 10:45:41 on November 1, 2006 by sophie
It's all been said    
"Thanks for the rebuttal Derek. I just want to stick up for the web site - it's done wonders for many people, and I think most people participating here are sensitive enough to realize that. We also realize that there will always be naysayers, there will always be those vehemently hold to their own opinions however misguided, generalized, or judgemental they may be. I was tempted to launch into a rebuttal of the previous anonymous comments, but I think it's pretty much been covered. Besides, this site is a positive place - a place for healing, not contention. It is a place where people come who are sincerely interested in becoming better people, sincerely repenting, and sincerely striving to permanently overcome our weaknesses. How can you criticize that? Not a single person here (that I've seen so far) is trying to justify their sins. Besides, I'm not trying to impress anyone, nor do I have any obligation to convince readers of this site of my sincerity - that is between me and the Lord, and I will let the Lord be the judge, not some anonymous writer.

I only have this to say: "Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Anonymous writer, do you really want the Lord to give you the same unforgiving ultimatum that you advocate? As has been stated before, no one here is rationalizing the terrible sin of pornography, nor are we advocating that the atonement justifies it. To say that we are is a complete misunderstanding and frankly quite offensive (not to mention the generalization and redundant sentence of "People who look at pornography are selfish, selfcentered, and self absorbed."). Somehow I don't recall the savior saying that about the harlot caught in the act. No, I believe he said "neither do I condemn thee." And yes, he did say "Go thy way and sin no more." That is exactly the advice most of us on this site, having found similar forgiveness from the Lord, are now trying desparately to follow. No, the Lord saved his most scathing criticism for those outwardly righteous, law-and-scripture-quoting individuals who used the law and the scriptures to judge others - the scribes and pharisees whom he referred to as "whited sepulchres,... beautiful outward but full of dead men's bones within..."

But I fear for my own hypocrisy in advising you not to judge, for I am trying not to judge you either. I have no idea what your situation is, so it unfair for me to judge you, just as it is unfair for you to make general judgments about those using this site as an aid in our recovery. I will instead try and follow Elder Bednar's advice and choose to not be offended."
posted at 16:47:15 on November 1, 2006 by josh
Whoa!!!    
"Let's put down the swords and pick up some plowshares!

I love the Lord, I love each of you and I love this site. There is no arguing those facts.

We are all just trying out best, right? Trying really hard to make sense of all this pain and trial, right? This is one place where we can help each other and move forward, not backward."
posted at 11:32:03 on November 2, 2006 by doanair
this site    
"this site is definitely a blessing on my road to recovery. This very day was so hard to me, yet as I read these posts my desire to sin has FLED. Thank you everyone for your wise and encouraging comments."
posted at 22:46:37 on November 2, 2006 by roast_rump


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"Nothing is beyond [Christ’s] redeeming reach or His encircling empathy. Therefore, we should not complain about our own life’s not being a rose garden when we remember who wore the crown of thorns! Having bled at every pore, how red His raiment must have been in Gethsemane, how crimson that cloak! No wonder, when Christ comes in power and glory, that He will come in reminding red attire, signifying not only the winepress of wrath, but also to bring to our remembrance how He suffered for each of us in Gethsemane and on Calvary!"

— Neal A. Maxwell

General Conference May 1987