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I am going to tell my wife today
By iwillnot
5/23/2011 11:30:58 AM
I can't do this anymore. I've tried for so long to overcome this on my own. I haven't wanted to hurt her, but I've finally admitted to myself that I risk hurting her far worse by letting this fester and grow instead of getting it out in the open and dealing with it.

I've kept this from her for about 7 years. Like most men, I was exposed to pornography as a child. I grew up in a broken home and it served as an escape from that horrible situation. I went in to see the bishop before my mission. He was understanding and helpful. I went the two years being clean. I came home, got married, and taught Utah seminary for about a year, hoping to get hired full time. When I was refused I got angry and soon acted out.

I met with the bishop and was clean again for a year or two. But long hours of sitting in front of a computer in a job I wasn't totally engaged in soon overcame me, and I slipped back in. This went on for some time, with me alternating between periods of acting out and brief periods of sobriety. When making it an entire week without acting out became a Herculean effort, I realized I was an addict.

I eventually went and saw my new bishop. He gave me a mild discipline and suggested I look at the LDSAR program. I knew that if I did so, I would have to tell me wife about my problem. So I didn't, thinking if I tried hard enough I could overcome it on my own.

And for a while I did. I sobered up and was made Elders Quorum President. I did fine for almost a year, then fell back. I felt horrible. I knew I couldn't be in my calling and have those sins, but I still didn't want my wife to know. I didn't want to see the disappointment and anguish in her lovely face (I had told her once that I had slipped, but we never really discussed it). I found the LDSAR program manual and this website. I went through the 12 steps on my own. I didn't want to see the new bishop for fear that I would be released from my calling and my wife would find out.

I pleaded with the Lord to let there be another way. I told him I would do anything to keep my wife from this pain if I could only have my own route to repentence rather than coming clean and meeting with the bishop. I knew it wasn't wise. The answer I got was I could try it, but it would be a much harder path.

I didn't care. I embraced the harder path, for it would keep my secret safe. I was sincere in my desire to do whatever it took to be clean for my wife. I was clean for months again.

And then I encountered a major disappointment. I was rejected by the graduate school I had set my heart on getting into. I was sure I would get in, for I felt the Lord wanted me there. When I didn't get in I felt cheated. I was angry at the Lord. A couple days later, I acted out again. No porn this time, just masterbation.

After token repentences and brief periods of sobriety, I gradually fell into full relapse. Each time I was sure I could overcome it through sheer willpower. I'd self-discipline, going without the sacrament for a week or two. I'd throw myself back into scriptures and service. I'd be fine for weeks, sometimes months, but I always came back eventually.

I am now at the point where I can only go a couple weeks before relapsing. I know I have a problem. I know I can't do this on my own. After hearing good things about the book He Restoreth My Soul by Hilton, I bought it last week. The book talks about the chemical nature of pornography addiction and that it isn't simply something a person can overcome by personal willpower. The real world and the secret world of the addict must combine, otherwise the secret world will grow larger and larger.I prayed about it yesterday, and felt undeniable encouragement to tell her. I know I won't be able to do this on my own. For my family's sake, I need to come clean now.

It turns out this road was indeed much more difficult than the one I turned down so long ago.

I don't know that I've ever felt worse than I do right now. I feel like an enormous failure. But I also feel relief. At least I won't have to hide anymore. And although in the short run this will be miserable, in the long run it will be so much better.

I'm a father of two, with one on the way. I am the ward mission leader. And I am an addict.

Thank you everyone for your support and experiences. This site has already helped me a great deal. To all the spouses out there who have been hurt by this addiction, I am sorry. I am so, so sorry. I go now to put my wife through that same pain. This could possibly be the worst moment of my life.

But I know it's better this way.

Comments:

Yes it is better this way - It is the only way    
"Courage Bro, a new life is beyond this important decision.

I quote from someone on this site:

Your hell is soon coming to an end, but hers will now only begin.

Remember that, it is so true and true humility will be evidenced in how you handle yourself during the excruciating pain she is about to feel.

You are doing the right thing."
posted at 14:25:34 on May 23, 2011 by ruggaexpat
Honesty...    
"Honesty with yourself and those around you is the first step towards true repentance and healing. You are making the right choice, darkness cannot abide the light. Your wife will be hurt but hopefully this can be a stepping stone for the two of you. Better days than you have ever known are not only possible, but promised if you will both hold to the rod and seek for healing through Christ.

You'll be in my prayers today!"
posted at 15:08:26 on May 23, 2011 by paul
Monsters in the closet    
"It definitely sucks what is and what has to be done. But things are often not as bad as we fear. Like monsters in the closet. On approach and at the first glance in its going to be awful. As awful as you imagine. At least it was for me. But once we (my wife and I) had a look around all we found was a dark and dirty closet. But no monsters.

I think often we make things worse by adding our own stories and narrations of "monsters in the closet" to reality; to make sense of it. However, sometimes a dark closet is just a dark closet...if that make sense.

I know its not this way for everyone but for my wife and I things have been infinitely better, for both of us, since I dropped the bombs. No hell. Just experience (romans 8:28, d&c 122:7). Good luck."
posted at 17:25:16 on May 23, 2011 by They speak
It doesnt hurt to have a disclosure plan....    
"First of all.... sounds like you are on the right step to recovery. congrats..

This addiction is cunning, baffling and powerful. You have to get this out into the light for sure but you should have a plan in place for disclosure. Addiction can never be won on willpower alone and always needs outside help.

For your disclosure, it would be best if you had a counselor or therapist where you could do it but it sounds like you are still in poor student mode. If your bishop is knowledgeable with addictions, perhaps you can do it in his presence. Your wife may need a bunch of support too since she will be hurt and could end up traumatized or in a co-addict cycle.

as for ARP meetings, I have found 12 step meetings to be a godsend for me. Hilton's book discusses the importance of a 12 step program. I personally chose SAA rather than the church's ARP program so I could get stronger medicine, get a sponsor and be more focused on sex compusion addiction.

In my case, I feel like I need to get to the root of my problems of why I NEED to use mb to self medicate before I will get this under control. If I don't, all I'm doing is treating the symptoms and when the right combinations of triggers hit me, i would be sunk.


good luck. keep us posted.. may you find peace"
posted at 17:55:54 on May 23, 2011 by Hurtallover
This is the right way!    
"No one can do this on their own! that is why you were drawn to this page! You need streangth in numbers! when you are week you can draw on the lord and on the word of those in your group! Honesty with your wife is the only way to heal! I cant promise you that things will be good with your wife! I can promise you that peace can come, and with the Lords help you can heal! The LDSAR program was set up to help! It was inspired, but you have to want to change! It sounds like you hit that rock bottom point where you want it more than anything! dont lose that!

Good Luck Brother! Our prayers are with you!"
posted at 23:41:45 on May 23, 2011 by 30years
It went well    
"Much better than I expected. I expected anger and frustration and yelling and crying. It turned out I was the only one who cried. I blubbered like a baby and told her I needed help. I told her my entire history with the disease. I had pleaded with the Lord that He would prepare her and give her added strength for this and He did. I felt a warm feeling as I headed towards home to tell her.

It turned out to be much like you said, THEY SPEAK. Rather than a monster in a closet, it was simply a dark, dirty place that needs some cleaning. I love that imagery, because it describes it perfectly.

I have a problem and I need to do better. And with the help of the Lord and the Atonement, I will. This will be hard and painful, but it is doable. I know I can be healed. He loves us all and wants what is best. His hand is always extended towards us. I know He lives, because I've felt Him so many times rooting for me, just like I feel Him now. Now that my secret is out in the open, it can be healed.

I have a long road ahead of me. I know my wife and I are still in for a lot of pain before this is through. Telling her was easily one of the hardest things I've ever had to do. Compared to that, talking with the bishop and attending the meetings isn't nearly as daunting.

I have my first official LDSAR meeting tonight. This may sound strange, but I'm actually excited to go to it. I'm also anxious to meet with the bishop. Thank you everyone for your love and support. This site truly is a wonderful thing, and I thank the Lord for whoever decided to start it."
posted at 16:24:45 on May 25, 2011 by iwillnot
Bravo    
"I want you to be my Elders Quorum President.
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo."
posted at 23:44:03 on May 25, 2011 by gracefull
Hope    
"I to have just gone to my first LDSAR meetings and surprisingly after getting over the shame of going, I have actually enjoyed them and too look forward to them each week. There is an incredible feeling of the spirit there that I have not had in my life for a while. You will be sitting amongst others who are seeking the same freedom you are in combating the adversary. There is definitely strength in numbers.

Encourage your wife to go with you for she will find strength through women who attend also who are seeking their own healing through our Savior."
posted at 07:30:00 on May 26, 2011 by rachp
First class was great    
"My wife and I attended our first AR meeting last night. It was amazing. It was refreshing to be in an environment of complete honesty. When the facilitator started out by saying his name and that he was an addict, it was like something lifted from me. Just to hear someone else say that, in person, was liberating. I volunteered to go next. I could barely get the words out at first. But admitting to a group of others that I was an addict was therapeutic. I'm both excited and humiliated to go next week.

And that's reflective of how I'm feeling right now. A jumble of strong, sometimes contradictory emotions. I'm humiliated that my wife and others know this about me, but I'm relieved that it's out. I'm anxious and feel trepidation, yet I'm also calm and assured. I feel an incredible sadness, but I also see the strong light of hope. But the pervading emotion is shame.

When does the shame go away?"
posted at 10:35:48 on May 26, 2011 by iwillnot
It goes...    
"When you decide that it goes.

Regret, that never goes for me. Shame, does not need to stay, it does when you have the secrets and just following the confession and it becomes exposed but then we all get on with our lives and remember where we have come from.

Let it go, it is a very dangerous emotion to keep with you as it causes pride to remain steadfastly in your heart.

Regret is linked to humility so never lose any ounce of it."
posted at 12:18:16 on May 26, 2011 by ruggaexpat
Shame    
"That is Satans tool. Shame tells us to keep secrets. It does not allow us to be humble. Secrets makes us sick, and allows our sickness to attach itself to generations. So dismiss shame and embrace regret as Rugga has suggested."
posted at 16:15:24 on June 1, 2011 by Hero
side note    
"I too have struggled off and on with this addiction for many years. As I have worked with many bishops, their counsel has varied as far as whether or not to tell my spouse. I was burnt before when we were engaged and I told my spouse that I had premarital sex years before, but had taken all the proper steps of repentance. It was like I wanted my spouse to know about it before marrying me, yet I didn't want her to call off the wedding. It was a rough few weeks, but we moved forward and got married as planned. I wish I had counseled with some before, because it turned out that after talked to a bishop afterwards, it wasnt a great idea to tell my spouse about my past sins. My current bishop also doesn't think I should tell my wife and neither does my counselor. Doesn't one of the steps talk about not telling someone I'd it is going to cause them unnecessary pain? This of course is very personal to each individual, but if a spouse has no idea about the porn and mb, cant someone still confess and forsake just like the one who brings it to the knowledge of the unknowing spouse? again, to each their own. I was just wondering if others had been counseled in my same direction."
posted at 11:54:13 on June 18, 2011 by Anonymous
Hmmmmm! Anon    
"You say you have struggled off and on for many years and that your spouse is unknowing. Your Spouse may nor know specifics but let me assure you her instincts are telling her something is off in your relationship. As a spouse it is better to know no matter how painful. Honesty allows both of you to grow and heal together. Your marriage is suffering because of addictive characteristics, your wife is suffering from her co addictive behaviors she doesn't even know she has, all needs to be cleansed and purged from you and your relationships. It will happen by the amazing power of the atonement and by knowledge, truth, courage, strength.


You cannot sweep this under the rug and expect those negative characteristics in you and your marriage and also your spouse to magically disappear. You spouse needs to heal from the
cancer in your marriage and she cannot until some one is brave enough to tell her she has a
hidden cancer growing inside. Then, both of you can work together to eradicate the tumor.



There is not room in a celestial marriage for secrets or lies. If that is your goal then you know your course. Have faith in her. She forgave you before and
Christ will give her all that she needs to be able to do that again. Both of you will need to work at it individually and also work on you needs as a
couple, but if you do the hard work and give her and yourself at least 2 years to get there. You will then know the refiners fire by seeing His image in your continence and that of your marriage as well.

Love and prayers"
posted at 13:38:11 on June 18, 2011 by Hero
Tell her    
"There is no doubt in my mind that a spouse deserves to know the truth. I personally do not believe that it is possible to recover without telling your spouse. I personally believe that as long as someone is deceitful with their spouse that this addiction cannot be cleansed from the soul."
posted at 21:21:24 on June 18, 2011 by maddy
Anon-Confession is required    
"If you are trying to repent without 100% complete confession to your wife, you are following someone eles's plan. And, it is not your Father in Heaven's plan.

I can't imagine your Bishop going along with this. That sounds really off to me. All things must be brought to light. True repentence requires 100% disclosure to your wife. You should read HURTALLLOVER'S history. it is both painful and inspiring.

Some would keep this secrect until the day they die, rather than come 100% clean to God and their spouses.

SECRETS MAKE YOU SICK !!! The problem with becoming sick with secrets is that the person actually believes their prayers are being answered by God. Secrets not only make you sick, they make all of those around you sick and crazy as well. Especially your wife.

Do yourself a favor. Really work the steps. Start with step one, Honesty! And the truth is that you have been lying to yourself in order to avoid exposing the truth about you and your sins. My opinion, but it looks like it based upon your text.

I will pray for you as you are worth true repentence, and so is your family. Be real. Be 100% honest, trust the Lord with all of your heart, and become new in the atonement of Christ.

There is no other way!"
posted at 06:51:22 on June 19, 2011 by Anonymous
Many dimensions to this issue    
"This is an interesting issue. I received council not too different from anonymous's. Allow me to elaborate.

The first time I fell after getting married was about a year after the wedding. I realized immediately I needed to do something, so I went and saw my bishop. I can't remember many instances in my life where I felt the spirit as strongly as I did in that meeting, especially when he was about to tell me what I needed to do to repent. I was told not to use the priesthood or take the sacrament for two weeks.

I spent those next two weeks praying and studying scriptures and serving like crazy. Despite my punishments, I was on a spiritual high. The last thing I wanted to do was tell my wife, but I realized I needed to be willing to do this if I wanted to truly repent. So I prayed and told Heavenly Father I was willing to tell her. Surprisingly enough, the answer I got was not to tell her at that time. At first I thought it was simply my wishes interfering with the spirit, but it was confirmed later when my bishop advised me it may be a good idea not to tell her yet. He explained that when it is that early in the marriage, trust can be destroyed completely.

So I didn't. I did well for another year or two before I fell again. Soon I was back in the addiction. I would do well for a while, then fall back in. Each time I did I would try to repent on my own. It might last for a little while, but I always came back. Another year or two passed this way.

The spirit told me it was time to tell my wife. I didn't. I thought because of that first time when I was counseled NOT to, that I was justified not telling her then. I exploited that first time and used it as an excuse to continue to act out, lying to myself that I would take care of it on my own. I was fooling myself. I went another year or two this way. I told myself I was saving her feelings, but in reality it was my own I was concerned about.

I finally told her about a month ago. She handled it remarkably well. Life has been amazing since then. When I look back at those years I spent in hell trying to overcome this on my own, I want to kick myself. Relief had been next to me that whole time. I was too proud to reach for it.

One interesting note: when I told her about that first meeting with the bishop and the advice NOT to tell her, she thought for a moment. Then she said "That's good. I probably would have left you."

So are there some situations where you shouldn't disclose everything? Yes. But these are extremely rare -- the exception rather than the rule -- and must be 100% the spirit's decision and not your own. I would also point out that the council I recieved wasn't "Don't tell her." It was "Don't tell her YET."

Anonymous, you will never completely heal until this is 100% out in the open. I don't know you or your bishop, and your bishop has the priesthood keys and not me, so it's not my place to say whether you are right or wrong. All I will say is you need to be positive it is the spirit telling you this and not your own desire. You know the difference. If it is the spirit, do everything you can to purify yourself and realize that you will tell her someday.

However, if it is your own desire -- a secret being kept out of pride -- then you are suffering needlessly. Like a man carrying a piano on his back and pretending it isn't heavy. Maddy and Hero are right in everything they say.

How can you know? Kneel down and pray right now. Tell the Lord you are willing to tell your wife if that is what He wants. If you feel the same nudge to tell her that I felt at least four or five times, then do it. If you shouldn't tell her, the spirit will be quite clear.

Just make sure you're not holding that piano for no reason."
posted at 11:25:34 on June 20, 2011 by iwillnot
THank you very much I will Not    
"thank you very much for sharing your honest story.

disclosure is such a delicate thing... and it's really, really valuable to me to hear stories like this. I will NOT forget it!"
posted at 18:39:39 on June 20, 2011 by Anonymous
I just do not get it    
"I am a betrayed wife who's been lied to our whole marriage of 10 years. I am so angry and so sad that my husband did not have the courage to tell me before we got married and early in our marriage before we had children. There is no way to fully repent withtout confessing to the person you have hurt. I always knew something was wrong, very amiss , oh if he had told me when it first happenned , I think our lives would be different. My biggest regret is for those years of misery wasted. DO not be fools, the evil spirit of pronography that you invite in your homes afflicts everyone in it. Your wives have suffered and it is cruel to let anyone suffer without telling them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the advice and pleading of a broken hearted women, go and tell your wives now.
More then the porn, it is the lying that killed our marriage. I've known for a year and we have been to ARP. I want to forgive. But my faith in him is completely shattered. I can not believe that someone I love has lied to me for so many years. I want to leave him and am prepared to do so. I do not think that a marriage where there's been so much dishonnesty can ever strive. I have made preparations to leave and am finalizing all the details. I am broken-hearted over the pain my kids are inflicted. But I do not think that they need to be in a house with so much contention and around such a liar.
Oh how I wished he had told me earlier, when there was still time, when the kids were not yet there. He waited until he went so far and was caught.
GO AND TELL YOUR WIFE if you want to give it a chance. The earlier, the better. That is what I wished with all my heart he would have done. He was also counseled years ago by bishops who knew nothing about addictions not to tell me. What a big mistake. Our bishop now and stake president and therapist all say that it was a great mistake. Addiction strives in secrecy. The more you keep it from your wife, the more you fuel it.
So go and tell her"
posted at 22:09:52 on June 20, 2011 by Anonymous
I do not get it either, ANONYMOUS    
"I think we both agree that following the Holy Spirit of GOD is ALWAYS the right thing to do.

Also, to add to your case... the Priesthood scripture in D&C 120 comes to mind....

No power or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by persuasion, by long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned;

42By kindness, and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy, and without guile

that said,... I have used the principles shown above (or the best of my current ability) in
being honest with every mormon girlfriend I have ever had early, early, early... (with 6 months to 12 months of recovery time) ..and guess what???... none of them have decided to move forward with a relationship... Oh sure... many of them fake it a for few months as they try to understand if they want to stick around or not.... but lets be honest.. it's kind of an attraction killer... especially for LDS women who have done nothing wrong in their lives (ahem). It's just a super confusing concept for most LDS women... and I don't blame them...since they have been taught from a young age how GREAT they are... and how EVIL men are to want to look at naked women.

A recent girlfriend told me that she would have preferred that I had sex with another woman than to have looked at porn!!! (I've never had intercourse in my life by the way) If this woman believes that... and the prophets have said that sex is next to murder.... well I guess pornography is pretty close to murder huh?? (at least in the mind of an average LDS woman)

meanwhile... back at the ranch... the women in my singles ward group together to watch the Bachelerette & Dancing with the Stars...(aka... romantic porn), but it's pretty much soft core porn as well and I have to stay away from that as a recovery addict...

so... long story short... most women that I date in the LDS church can't handle this type of honest approach to life... (Frankly, I'm not sure our church is either)... which is starting to make me think... as a temple worthy LDS man... I may need to start looking outside the church to find someone who isn't programmed from the age for 5 to avoid men like me.

P.S. - If you have a son.. and he at some point looks at porn (or gets it shoved into his face by some neighborhood friends or by the culture at large) and then lies to you about it.. what would you do? what would you advise him to do before he gets married?"
posted at 00:24:18 on June 21, 2011 by gracefull
I'm Not Average :)    
"I'm not your average LDS woman I guess. I wasn't scared away by knowing my 2nd husband had struggled with porn and masturbation. What got me was when after we got married he told me that he had molested 4 children (two were his siblings) as a teenager and that he got sent home from his mission because he confessed to one of them while on his mission. I don't think you need to tell every LITTLE detail of your past, but I agree that being lied to is the worst part. I wish my 2nd husband had been honest before we were married. After we were divorced he finally got around to doing the full disclosure our counselor suggested and I found out there was also homosexual activity etc. If he had been honest about it I wouldn't have married him (and I wouldn't have let him near my son). Of course I wouldn't have my youngest if he'd been honest. I still wouldn't rule out marrying a man who has struggled with porn and masturbation. I don't get preferring that a man has had sex over looking at porn. Bachelorette is definitely soft core porn. I don't watch that anymore either.

Gracefull - Don't give up looking for a mormon woman. Maybe you can find a convert that isn't freaked out. :) Remember that despite their reactions, you are a good person.

If either of my sons looks at porn and doesn't tell me I'd probably be disappointed. If they lie to me about it, I'd be upset. I don't think the fact that he's looked at some point needs to be disclosed, but if he's addicted I think it should be. Just my opinion."
posted at 00:51:56 on June 21, 2011 by dstanley
Response to Gracefull and Anon #2    
"Like I said, it is a complex issue with many dimensions. Though honesty is the best policy, disclosure needs to be done with wisdom and deliberation. Gracefull, if you are telling girls you are only dating about it, it's probably a little too soon. I think that's something that comes out when you are discussing marriage, not before. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you said, and if so, I apologize. I have known guys who are a little TOO open with this kind of stuff, however, and there is such a thing as wanton honesty.

I can understand your frustration and I feel for you. This is a difficult thing. However, in your post you come across as very bitter and as judgmental as the women you are frustrated with. I learned long ago (from my seminary teaching, BYU Education Week-speaking father who had a habit of visiting strippers) not to judge the church by the actions of its members. Claiming that you may need to find a non-LDS woman to marry because all LDS women are judgmental is itself a judgmental and ill-informed statement. There are tens of thousands of LDS women out there who are strong and charitible enough to handle your situation.

That having been said, I do agree with you that LDS members are woefully undereducated regarding porn and mb. I see this as a byproduct of Mormon culture, not the Mormon church. We are taught over and over that sex is sacred and must be treated as such. We interpret this to mean sex is bad and therefore anybody who desires it is bad. The result is a generation of men filled with shame and a generation of women who have been conditioned to abhor sex, even in its healthy and nourishing state.

Many LDS women tend to think this (porn and mb) is an isolated problem affecting only a small portion of men (the 'perverts'), and if a guy has a problem with it, it means there's something wrong with him. Wrong. It means he's a guy. Guess what? Your father probably struggled with this. So did your grandfather. And your sons. And the deacon across the street. The perspective we need have is that in our culture EVERY guy has been exposed to porn and mb, and it's what he's doing to fight against it that should judge him, not the exposure itself. Don't forget that for about 95% of the country (including many Christian churches), porn and mb aren't even considered a sin. They are considered 'healthy'.

I have unspeakable respect for any man who has come clean to his bishop and family and is attending the AR meetings. Because every guy has these problems to one level or another--these are just the men who are trying to do something about it.

Most women don't understand what it's like for a guy to have this crap constantly shoved in his face. They also don't have the same sex drive as men, so they don't understand why it is such a struggle. This can lead to judgmental statements. I also find it funny (although sad also), that many of the harshest female condemners of porn addicts somehow have no qualms about shows like Bachelorette, DWTS, Desperate Housewives, etc.. I'd also include in this things like soap operas, romance novels, etc., which are a sort of emotional porn for women. None of this justifies male porn use. But women need to at least realize they promote many of the things they claim to disdain.

I have two daughters. Someday they will get married. My measure of the men they choose won't be if they've looked at porn or not. They will have. My measure of them will be what they've done to overcome it.

Getting back to the original question that started all of this: do men need to be completely open about their problems (I'm talking about husbands here, not boyfriends) . The answer is still yes. I think 99% of the time it should come out immediately. But there is that 1% when it may be wiser to wait a bit. This, of course, needs to be the spirit's decision, and not the man's. Otherwise there will be nothing but hurt for all involved. Which is the mistake I made.

Honesty needs to be done with wisdom. The LDSAR manual says confession should be carefully considered with the help of wise advisors. It needs to be done the right way at the right time.

To the heartbroken, anonymous sister who has been devastated by her husband's infidelity: I am truly sorry. But please don't direct your anger at well-intentioned bishops. Chances are your husband is misrepresenting the advice they gave to him. Especially if he is an addict who only came clean after he got caught. I had convinced myself my bishop's council years before meant I shouldn't tell my wife, when that's not what was meant at all.

Also, if he's willing to try, please give him a chance. Just as I don't know what it was like for you to find out he's been lying this whole time, you don't understand what it's like to be a man with a porn addiction. He's probably a better guy than you think."
posted at 10:43:38 on June 21, 2011 by iwillnot
I would vote for you for President IWILLNOT    
"simply amazed at your wonderful response.. Thank you for filling my soul with wisdom and hope. I would vote for you for president if you were running.

Yes, I am bitter and angry... I own that.. and will need to take that to the altar and hope that God can fill my heart with Love once again. Thank you for going the extra mile with me in bearing this burden with me for a bit.... "
posted at 16:09:05 on June 21, 2011 by gracefull
Education!    
"I guess as women in the gospel get more educated on the effects of addiction, Porn, alcohol, drugs, sex, I hope there is not a complacency about it. Porn is really the most secret of addictions. It does not smell or make you act outwardly under the influence.

So what are we to do? How can women protect themselves and their future children from having the effect of addiction in their homes?

How can worthy young men be completely honest about their sexual addiction and there ability to overcome it?

I may be shouted down; but, knowing what I know now, and having spent the last two years in gaining an understanding of sexual addiction, treatment, and effects of and much more. AND having a daughter who is not married yet, these are the things I would have her do if she fell in love with a man who confessed to having had a sexual addiction.

#1 I would have her read material like, He Restoreth My Soul, so that she had a full understanding of the addiction and hope for recovery.

#2 How long has he been in recovery? If he has not been in recovery for at least 2 years, I would council her to not even consider marriage until full recovery of at least 2 years. (no acting out for 2 years) I would encourage her if he is close to that time frame to wait it out. If he is not close to the 2 year mark, then move on.

#3 What is he doing to stay in recovery? If he can not say that he has regular daily prayer morning and night, is daily in the scriptures, and has regular church and temple attendance , still goes to some sort of an Addiction Recovery Group, has an accountability person, someone of the same sex, not his romantic interest. Keeps blocks on any device capable of accessing the Internet. Is willing to take a polygraph, and submit to polygraphs when ever his love interest requests one, then and only then would I suggest she consider this man as someone who should be considered for marriage. If he can answer yes to all of these questions then he is a REAL MAN.

#4 I would make sure she understands boundaries and has the ability to set them and carry out consequences for crossed boundaries.

We have these conversations now. We talk about who she is dating and characteristics to be aware of, objectifying, always scanning the crowd, does he have male friends? Have a job? Career goals? Does she notice any untruthful behavior?

Most of all I would tell her that if this man has overcome this addiction that he will be one of the most amazing husbands and fathers she will ever find. That he had to be one of the most choicest spirits of our Heavenly Fathers children, that he had a calling that would build Gods kingdom in a dynamic way that Satan knew this because he was our brother before he was cast out. That Satan and all of his angels conspired to bring him down. He has risen above and met this challenge. He know his Savior and Heavenly Father intimately. That he has shown his true self in overcoming and although there are not any guarantees, he would be a good one to hope for it all with.

So yes be honest! You will be blessed. When you do as He says, He preforms his blessings.

Love to you all, "
posted at 17:33:29 on June 21, 2011 by Hero
Polygraphs?    
"I'm not sure it takes willingness to submit to polygraphs whenever wanted by a spouse to be a REAL MAN (or WOMAN). Would you expect that of someone with a non-sexual addiction?"
posted at 23:14:52 on June 21, 2011 by dstanley
The most interesting subject    
"Is also the most painful subject - Telling the Spouse.

In the end the Lord leaves it up to us to decide as much as he does tithing, drinking coke, sleeping late, eating unhealthy foods, etc.

It all boils down to this in my mind:

If you want to keep it to yourself and leave the wife dangling by a thread then go ahead but be man or woman enough to deal with the consequences.

Lets be frank I spoke to the Lord so many times telling him that he must tell me if I must tell my wife but I hoped at the same time I did not have to. So what do you think I did all those many times - listened to the fear which was in so much more abundance than faith and most important love.

Result, wife sitting there confused, forsaken, lonely, hey you all have read their feelings and so much more. Now I will not believe that Heavenly Father will allow a priesthood holder who has made sacred covernants to keep his wife in the dark. If so then you guys need to educate me and I am missing something here in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If so then the temple covernants are as worth as any promise made at any wedding ceremony.

When I did hold my wife in the dark, I understood marriage as a unionprimarily between me and her and rarely thought the Lord had much to do other than cheering me on to overcome my addiction after all he can forgive and I can repent.

I look at the damage done not just to me, my wife and children, I look at all the wasted opportunities for growth and urealized blessings and just cannot believe for one instance that the Lord would ever allow any of his children to suffer until the time is right.

Some people might say Nephi was allowed to kill a dude, well that was a really evil dude and would choose darkness than light. If anything the Lord would be sitting there wishing he could himself easy the unnecessary pain of his daughter by whispering it in her ear that hubby in indulging.

How can this God we love so much allow any son to play secrets with his daughter. No Father would do that, not me with my daughters and not you and cetainly not a loving father.

If there are special cases, well that is between God, Husband and wife.

Us addicts and recovering addicts cannot look for justifications of any sort to keep our partners from the truth.

The Lord is all about freedom, and he himself set laws in place that allows the truth to free us all."
posted at 10:35:06 on June 22, 2011 by ruggaexpat
Rugga, hero    
"Timing is everything. Rugga, you seem to take exception to the ARP manual and what it says about the timing of confession. Have you worked the Steps? In order? We don't confess without considering how it will do further harm. There's wisdom in that. You unbridled confession to your spouse might make you feel better immediately but your bad timing can prolong your wife's suffering. That is just how the Steps are done. In order. You sabotage yourself and your spouse by starting your recovery with a complete and unadulterated confession to anyone who will listen. If the Steps have been done properly and in order, you know HOW to tell your spouse without unnecessary damage. Of course, either way is going to be painful but if you have the wisdom and longevity of the previous 8 Steps under your belt, you are better prepared to be a help rather than a hinderance to your wife's own recovery. That's not MY theory or opinion. It is the wisdom of many addicts that have recovered and had their marriages healed as well. They made these rookie mistakes so we don't have to.

Hero, Most of what you suggest sounds ok, until the polygraph. Then it just sounds like encouraging a spouse to stay addicted and dependent on the behavior of the addict. That is not what recovery for the loved one looks like. Recovery for the loved one is when the behavior of the addict no longer consumes their whole being. What if a person takes all of your measures and the spouse still relapses 10 years into marriage? Given you prescription, it would destroy the spouse. Because meanwhile, the spouse has been focused on the addiction and waiting for the other shoe to drop. It can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you focus on the problem the problem gets bigger. When you focus on the solution, the problem gets smaller. Counter measures like a polygraph keep a spouses focus on the wrong thing not to mention reinforcing distrust.

Choosing a spouse is an individual decision. There are no rules. At least there are no rules that falling in love won't override. Geez, trying to control the addict from the very beginning only perpetuates the problem. Working towards a more understanding view of addicts might be a better pursuit than trying to build a cocoon around yourself to protect yourself. Addicts are addicts for life! Even when we're clean and sober we are a challenging bunch. If you are up for the challenge there are awesome rewards. If you know yourself well enough to know that you don't have the temperament to deal with a lifelong rollercoaster, than maybe you should pass."
posted at 12:31:58 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
Addicts are addicts for life?    
"That right there defies every written and spoken law of the Gospel.

You want to be an addict for life then you choose to be one.

Up for a challenge, what are you trying to say - Live with an addict and put up with the rollercoaster for life? Really?

Where does any relationship go with that, I will tell you, one way and that is the addicts way."
posted at 15:15:00 on June 22, 2011 by ruggaexpat
Emotional rollercoaster, not sobriety rollercoaster.    
"If you are "recovered" my hat's off to ya. Yes, I am an addict for life. I didn't choose it but once I accepted that I found some Grace. Eleven years clean and life is pretty grand. Wonderful marriage now. But yes, I am a royal pain in the ass to live with, still. "Sobriety" doesn't make everything all better. There are underlying causes and conditions that take a lifetime to work out with the Saviors help. I hope you have a quick fix. I don't."
posted at 16:11:55 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
Rugga,    
"Our addiction wants to destroy us but it's our pride that can actually do the job."
posted at 16:17:56 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
Reinforcing distrust ? Anon?    
"Are you a spouse? Have you been lied to for decades by someone whom you put all your trust in? So what is the major issue with most spouses who's discovery of sexual addiction in their marriage, or who are lucky, yes lucky enough to have that person disclose to them? The lies! All the lies. What do addicts do? Lie.... What is the best test for a sexual addict? The addiction that releases more chemicals to your brain than any other addiction? Recovery programs for alcohol, drugs require regular urinalysis, or blood, or hair test to validate sobriety. What test can be done for those who have sexual addictions,many who have taken it so far as to bring the threat of STD's, that could cause death into their marriage. If I had caused the amount of pain to my spouse , that I know from personal experience, and my spouse was doing all that she could do to heal and was making every effort to keep our marriage and family together, then why wouldn't I want to do something that would help bring trust back into our marriage again? I know there is not a 100 % to prove who is telling the truth. But, I also know it would make me appreciate my spouses fortitude and lack of pride to show that he would do anything to show his commitment to our marriage and his recovery. How great you would feel to be able to give that little litmus test to your spouse every 3-6-12 months! That would go along way in helping to restore trust, that by the way, takes the longest to recover, and is the most painful loss for the spouse.

So I can understand how addicts feel that when spouses place healthy boundaries into the relationship they feel that all we are doing is focusing on the addiction, when in reality we are finally learning how to feel safe in our unsafe marriage. We are defining how we want to live in our homes and live in our mortal existence. The addict still has his agency.

All that I described above to help a loved one feel safe that there is recovery is not my own making. But rather well defined and documented recovery tools. This is about recovery. Right?"
posted at 17:55:18 on June 22, 2011 by Hero
Accountability!    
"That is what I am talking about!"
posted at 18:00:54 on June 22, 2011 by Hero
Hero,    
"Even with the polygraph, you would still need more reassurance."
posted at 19:29:00 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
If the addict would only act this way or do that thing...    
"like an addiction, it is never enough."
posted at 19:29:54 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
Hero,    
"I don't know how to be delicate about this. I have no clue where you are getting your "recovery" tools. Having your husband submit to a polygraph perpetuates the co-addiction. Some of these tools you bring up just catch me out of left field because I know you are a wonderful and passionate advocate who works tirelessly in the cause of recovery. But some of the very things you suggest would actually prolong a spouses suffering in my opinion. They are completely counter to what is taught in every 12 Step literature for spouses and loved ones."
posted at 19:36:37 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
"Side Note" here    
"Wow! I hadn't looked at this thread since I had made my comments 4 days ago. So, I understand that many on this page are hurting. However, we have to be careful not to judge others and make assumptions that have no basis. 1. She doesn't know and we have a very happy marriage and family life (two kids). 2. As much as the ladies here hate to admit, mb and porn are a personal sin. Since you aren't being immoral with someone else, this is different than fornication or adultery.3. I have repented and I recently received a new calling. 4. If the Lord forgives and forget, who are we to remember it and make it part of our identity? If you continue to talk about your past sins with others, you haven't fully repented. This lesson is taught to missionaries in the MTC. Let me say that again, if you continue to tell others about your sins that have been "forgiven," you don't understand the plan or you haven't repented. If a spouse doesn't have a clue about this issue and it has been resolved properly, what would be the motive of bringing it to his/her attention? Don't let anger trump your knowledge of the atonement. Don't involve your kids. Don't try to tell everyone you know about how bad your spouse is in order to justify your hard heart and decisions to divorce. I understand that it must be frustrating, but take some time to study it out on lds.org

http://lds.org/general-conference/2004/10/peace-of-conscience-and-peace-of-mind?lang=eng&query=%22past+transgressions%22 "
posted at 19:44:05 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
"Side Note" here    
"Wow! I hadn't looked at this thread since I had made my comments 4 days ago. So, I understand that many on this page are hurting. However, we have to be careful not to judge others and make assumptions that have no basis. 1. She doesn't know and we have a very happy marriage and family life (two kids). 2. As much as the ladies here hate to admit, mb and porn are a personal sin. Since you aren't being immoral with someone else, this is different than fornication or adultery.3. I have repented and I recently received a new calling. 4. If the Lord forgives and forget, who are we to remember it and make it part of our identity? If you continue to talk about your past sins with others, you haven't fully repented. This lesson is taught to missionaries in the MTC. Let me say that again, if you continue to tell others about your sins that have been "forgiven," you don't understand the plan or you haven't repented. If a spouse doesn't have a clue about this issue and it has been resolved properly, what would be the motive of bringing it to his/her attention? Don't let anger trump your knowledge of the atonement. Don't involve your kids. Don't try to tell everyone you know about how bad your spouse is in order to justify your hard heart and decisions to divorce. I understand that it must be frustrating, but take some time to study it out on lds.org

http://lds.org/general-conference/2004/10/peace-of-conscience-and-peace-of-mind?lang=eng&query=%22past+transgressions%22 "
posted at 19:59:44 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
To the Anon above,    
"Yes, it is a personal sin...until you get married. Then our chastity is intertwined with our spouse. Come on, this is Christianity 101. It is an easy question. Just ask yourself when you maturbate or look at porn if you FEEL like you are being unfaithful to your wife, even just a little bit. If you're ok with it, hey fine. Alot of us have a conscience that tells us otherwise. Having a calling has nothing to do with worthiness. Many people hold callings unworthily."
posted at 20:12:50 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
Sorry anon    
"Not the same as fornication or adultery?

Have you been to the Temple lately? Our covenants are clear and any sexual sin is breaking the marriage covenant. You are not clean until you repent and you have not repented until you tell your wife. It is part of a confession. If you did any pn or mb while married, you have cheated plain and simple! You are minimizing the breaking of a sacred covenant, and that is what we addicts like to call denial. Do you tell everyone, that is your choice?

It feels like you are twisting the ARP program to fit your way of thinking. When you look at pn and mb, you are involving other people. you are creating victims everywhere. you are adding to the growing problem of drug abuse and abuse in general which is everywhere in the pn industry. The pn you looked at is someone's daughter, mother, sister, aunt, child, granddaughter, etc... you cheated and you cheated using their image. You cheated and victimized a child of God. It amazes me when people say it is different, because it is not.

Think about what we learn in the Temple. The wording was changed years ago as to not allow one question about what exactly it means to break the marriage covenant. Give me a break man!

This is not just a little sin you repent from and all is well. It is an addiction you will struggle with forever and it does take a spouse, and the support of those around you to continue to stay well. But then again, and every so often you meet someone who thinks that the rules do not apply to them.

The Lord remembers our sins no more, this is true. But I do not know where I would be today if it were not for people like hero and others who serve in the ARP program, who are willing to tell the truth about their addictions. Who are willing to talk about their past mistakes? To show that man and woman is faulted and then made whole again through the atonement of Christ.

It stands as a testimony to others of the real truth of what is happening in the church. The more we keep our lives and mistake a secret, the more we perpetuate the "I'm perfect" culture which keeps so many suffering in silence.

There is a difference between a mistake and an addiction. As mistake is corrected using one’s agency, and addiction takes agency away and requires much work to recover.
The 12 step program has been around long before the church opened its eyes to the truth that we need this now, and that program teaches that you take this addiction and serve others with it. And you cannot do that unless you are open. Open to the right people.

Do we stand on the pulpit and announce our sins? In Joseph Smith's day, we did. Maybe we don't do that now a day. Opening the truth opens the door to more truth. The truth allows others to seek a goal of complete recovery.

Recovery is not just about you and your family. It is about reaching out and giving other hope.

My 2 cents for whatever it's worth"
posted at 20:20:04 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
You are right    
"I am so full of pride thanks for noticing and letting me know. Glad to know someone is thinking of me so fondly.

Hero I just think you are fan-freaking-tastic as a person.

Keep sharing.

Anon talking about the rollercoaster, I know what you are talking about and believe it or not I like some of the things you have said. While I have a major disagreement, I am sincerely glad that your life is dandy and marriage is good."
posted at 20:46:05 on June 22, 2011 by ruggaexpat
Alma    
"Talked repeatedly about his past in order to bring others to christ. Alma was a prophet. I guess he didn't get the memo..."
posted at 20:49:42 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
last side note    
"I see that no one hear is interested in reading about about how and when to talk about past transgressions. If my wife had found out about my problem, then I would have wanted to involve her 100%. Just for the heck of it, consult the new handbook for leadership or ask your bishop if it is ever okay to not tell your spouse about something that you have repented of. Sorry, mb and porn aren't adultry. Lustful thoughts are also cheating, but in your heart. It is much different to act out a fantasy in real life when marrieds to someone else. Yes, Alma the younger confessed to those he had wronged, not to those he had fantasies about offending. Porn and mb are cheating, buy they aren't the same as committing the sun that you are watching on the screen."
posted at 21:14:47 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
last side note    
"I see that no one hear is interested in reading about about how and when to talk about past transgressions. If my wife had found out about my problem, then I would have wanted to involve her 100%. Just for the heck of it, consult the new handbook for leadership or ask your bishop if it is ever okay to not tell your spouse about something that you have repented of. Sorry, mb and porn aren't adultry. Lustful thoughts are also cheating, but in your heart. It is much different to act out a fantasy in real life when marrieds to someone else. Yes, Alma the younger confessed to those he had wronged, not to those he had fantasies about offending. Porn and mb are cheating, buy they aren't the same as committing the sun that you are watching on the screen."
posted at 21:31:19 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
last side note    
"I see that no one hear is interested in reading about about how and when to talk about past transgressions. If my wife had found out about my problem, then I would have wanted to involve her 100%. Just for the heck of it, consult the new handbook for leadership or ask your bishop if it is ever okay to not tell your spouse about something that you have repented of. Sorry, mb and porn aren't adultry. Lustful thoughts are also cheating, but in your heart. It is much different to act out a fantasy in real life when marrieds to someone else. Yes, Alma the younger confessed to those he had wronged, not to those he had fantasies about offending. Porn and mb are cheating, buy they aren't the same as committing the sun that you are watching on the screen."
posted at 21:32:27 on June 22, 2011 by Anonymous
remember marriage, you are one flesh...    
"marriage is just that, you become one flesh...thats a big deal. your problems or issues are your spouses and likewise....not fun, but it is the way things are here.

me i am not married. so i haven't had a spouse to help me along per se....so i can't identify with some folks on here who have stuck it out...my marriage ended because of the masturbation adultery nonsene...sewww ya.


its a fine line about telling someone....my thought is, i would think you should feel comfortable telling your spouse something like this...

hopefully we can find peace here in this life a little bit....

we can debate the finer points of doctrine here, but truth is truth ^ anon....'as a man thinketh, so is he" [proverbs 23;7] so, if you masturbate to porn, thats just as bad committing the act, if you think youre not hurting anyone, then satan sure has you snowed........god can't look upon sin with any least degree of allowence...see 1 John 3:15....our thoughts really get us, and make us quite guility.....this is proof here....oh, my friend, be careful how you justify your actions...when you step on that slippery slope...youre not on christs side. stay away from the edge..."
posted at 23:05:06 on June 22, 2011 by skyteamst90
As for me and my house...    
"As for me and my house... porn/mb is not adultery (or PREMARITAL SEX for single guys/gals)... if it was the church would excommunicate people for it wouldn't they??? . (Clearly there are many, many very sad/painful stories that are not your Victoria's Secret catalog type of slip)

I wish somehow the message could be conveyed that this addiction (nor any addiction) is a judgement call on a woman's worth. This is what the leading recovery programs/therapists are teaching. For me, it was about escaping feelings of loneliness, family dynamics, shame, working through trauma/abuse from childhood/teen years, acting out limiting beliefs that I was not lovable as I was - that I was not enough nor ever would be. that I was a flawed and broken human being.

I have really gained a lot of strength from learning how to laugh at myself... like the less I really focused on it so much.. and felt sooooo bad about it... the less power it had over me.
I was a really serious, sensitive kid when I was 14 and when I first discovered masturbation...It was like a caveman discovering fire... as I have learned how common an experience it was for men to go through.. and how I was not an inherently flawed human being... by the way 100% of men will either 1) have sex 2) masturbate 3) have a nocturnal emission...

The big mistake was feeling so much SHAME throughout my life and not learning how to involve the LORD in my life. It was all in secret for so long.. I suffered in silence for so long... that as for me... and my future house... Honesty is Step #1.. I deserve that. I deserve a woman that can handle honesty as well... and frankly I could care less at this point who knows. For me that is the right move... because I am now committed to this healing work for the rest of my life. It would probably be a different story if I had married right after my mission and had a momentarily slip or two.

It now just seems so hopeless... and sad actually... to be married to a woman (especially a celestial marriage) in which she can't really be a helpmeet to you (and vice versa)... that can't hope with you, pray with you, be honest with you, get personal revelation together with you.

One last thing.. just because I'm feeling a little punchy tonight... If MEN (REAL MEN) get lie detector tests, I say women get to be REAL WOMEN as well.

Here are the questions I would ask:
Have you had sex (in any form in the last 2 years)?
Have you masturbated in your life?
You like any of the following TV shows Sex in the City, Dancing with the Stars, Bachelorette?
Have you talked with your married girlfriends about their sex lives in the past year without husbands knowing about it?
Do you think sex is nasty/dirty?
Have you flirted with men on chat rooms?
Have you read any romance novels with sex stories in them?
You would maintain relationships with ex-boyfriends on facebook if we were married?
Do you agree: men are the weaker sex and will always try to cheat if given the chance?
Pornography is the same thing as Adultery?
And finally... Do you agree with this scripture?
For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. , Jesus Christ Matthew 7:2"
posted at 01:13:05 on June 23, 2011 by gracefull
Matthew 5:28 - You've all heard it before    
"28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

I think the Savior is pretty clear.

Is there degrees of sin? Is pornography at the same level as sexual intercourse? - I don't know.

It is all beams and motes and it doesn't matter.

What matters is that no unclean thing can dwell in God's presence. I must purify my own heart of every secret sin that lies there because even the smallest is spiritual death. I find that when I am asking "Is this as bad as that?" then my heart is seeking on some level to justify and so I pull away from that line of thinking quickly and throw myself at the feet of my Savior as fast as I can. It is not mine to judge...not even to judge myself. God will judge me and my only job is to come to Him fully and completely, without reservation and without hesitation.

This is what I do know about pornography: it is a transgression against marriage/temple covenants. It breaks covenants between yourself and God and yourself and your spouse. If you break a promise to work....to repent you must confess to them (aka I will not steal company property). If you break a promise to a school (aka I will not cheat on a test) then you must confess to them to fully repent. If you break a covenant to God, (I will always remember you) then you must confess to him. If you break a covenant to your spouse (I will be sexually faithful) then you must confess to them. Pretty simple.

Sometimes people are excommunicated for pornography addictions. Sometimes people are not excommunicated for physical adultery. We can't really go there because each case is individual and plus, just by going down that road, we are again trying to figure out if one is as bad as the other...

Pornography damages people other than the addict. Those people must be found, and restitution made. Confession is appropriate where covenants have been broken.

Graceful made a comment about dating girls and them leaving because of his confession to them. I personally do not think that confession about PAST sins that are fully, fully repented of need to be brought up to a girlfriend until promises are made and your become engaged. At the point you are going to be married then I think that it is important to let her know if you've ever been in 'prison' including the prison of addiction. My husband told me when we became engaged about his issues. BUT this is just my person opinion and personal advice and experience. (Sorry to get personal Graceful. It was just a thought I had and wanted to share. I am a little late on the conversation.)

God bless us all. These are heavy burdens to bear and to bare."
posted at 08:42:02 on June 23, 2011 by maddy
Help me out maddy    
"I'm a single guy (no relationships)
I looked at porn
who do I make restitution to?"
posted at 10:30:48 on June 23, 2011 by Anonymous
Men love what they protect!    
"Self evaluate, what are you protecting? Is my man protecting me or the addiction?
What or who do you love the most?"
posted at 11:13:24 on June 23, 2011 by Hero
Anon    
"Make restitution to that woman's family who are pained by the reality that their daughter sells whats most precious for drugs, fun, etc.

By not following the rest of the guys watching out of lust, you make a pretty good indirect restitution to others.

What about your family, are you helping them out by watching porn?

If we really want to repent and come straight in our heads, we will do anything (no matter how desperate and creative the idea) to show ourselves, others and Heaven that we are repenting fully."
posted at 14:29:41 on June 23, 2011 by ruggaexpat
Thank you Rugga!    
"Thank you for still coming to this site and commenting. I know you have recovered. You can be so helpful to those who are still trying. You are demonstrating Step 12 in action. Thank you!"
posted at 15:07:49 on June 23, 2011 by hero
Make amends to yourself.    
"."
posted at 15:09:31 on June 23, 2011 by Anonymous
Graceful!    
"I think those are fair questions you should ask a women you would be considering as a spouse."
posted at 15:14:15 on June 23, 2011 by hero
Dont Get so busy calling others to repentance that you forget to forgive    
"This discussion is pretty heavy on calling out others to repentance, but I haven't seen much advice about the importance of forgiveness. As a spouse someone who was addicted to porn, I know it can be hard to forgive. But it sounds to me that some of you are border-line obsessed with finding people on this website to call to repentance. I know what it means to be hurt and then to forgive. Until you have utilized the atonement to forgive those have brought hurt into your lives, you will have no more peace than the unrepentant addict. Remember who the Lord has comanded us to forgive: everyone! You can't pick and choose based on whether you think that they deserve it. That is the Lord's job. Additionally, you won't have the Spirit with you as much as you could if you were willing to follow the commandment to forgive. The elephant in the room is this: you won't be forgiven for your own sins until you have forgiven others. Period. Plus, this isn't really the website to attack others seeking help. You will never feel better going down that road; trust me, I know. Good luck!"
posted at 15:15:55 on June 23, 2011 by Anonymous
I stand by my comment    
"we can debate the finer points of doctrine here, but truth is truth ^ anon....'as a man thinketh, so is he" [proverbs 23;7] so, if you masturbate to porn, thats just as bad committing the act, if you think youre not hurting anyone, then satan sure has you snowed........god can't look upon sin with any least degree of allowence...see 1 John 3:15....our thoughts really get us, and make us quite guility.....this is proof here....oh, my friend, be careful how you justify your actions...when you step on that slippery slope...youre not on christs side. stay away from the edge...""
posted at 18:46:03 on June 23, 2011 by skyteamst90
My only answer to the Help Me Out question:    
"Steps 8 and 9

As we all work them, and rework them, we'll begin to understand who to make restitution to."
posted at 22:30:22 on June 23, 2011 by maddy
Skyteam, did you even read the post?    
"I don't masturbate dummy. My husband did and now he doesn't. I forgave him. If you think mb is equal to adultery in the eyes of God, you need to do some more studying. That would mean that most of the men in the church would have been excommunicated by now."
posted at 23:04:08 on June 23, 2011 by Anonymous
denial    
"Makes us all feel better!"
posted at 23:24:10 on June 23, 2011 by Anonymous
Anon lady chill    
"Think about what you are saying:

Here you have a recovering addict being hard on his addiction and clearly showing that lust is a no go. That deserves more recognition than study suggestions.
The last thing us recovering addicts need is a justification to be softer on masturbation because trust me an addict mind can twist any sort of comment to justify the argument in theor favour."
posted at 00:02:35 on June 24, 2011 by ruggaexpat
Who are you calling dummy?    
"How dare you call my friend names? We all read your "holier-than-thou" post. Now we know WHY your husband masturbates."
posted at 00:15:06 on June 24, 2011 by Anonymous
Now now children.    
"Every time a tiff breaks out on this site I almost laugh because as I read and re-read I find rarely does anyone actually and completely disagree. At least based on their own arguments as I interpret them..? We all need to cool out. It's embarrassing.

Personally I wish I was a neuro-scientist because I'd be interested to do studies and to see what the physiological ramifications are in the brain while observing porn vs. actually having illicit sex. I would hypothesize based on my own personal observation/experience that pornography's effect on the brain is just as bad or worse then "serious" moral transgression. Beside that I agree with Maddy. No unclean thing. Why split hairs? I for one would feel like quite the horses ass saying to the Lord "well, it's not like I actually did it." I would be grateful to be judged less harshly, if that was the case, for not actually doing it but I sure ain't gonna get cocky (well, hopefully).

As far as honesty and confession are concerned I think almost every angle has been covered. I would just add that applied those angles are, and should be handled, case by case. Also, an appeal to authority on the subject concerning the matter. From the SA White Book:

A Caution

"We suggest that newcomers to Sexaholics Anonymous not reveal their sexual past to a spouse or family member who does not already know of it, without careful consideration and a period of sexual sobriety, and even then, only after prior discussion with an SA sponsor or group. Typically, when we come into the program, we want to share our excitement with those closest to us and tell all right away. Such disclosures might injure our family or others and should be confined to the group of which we are a part until a wise course is indicated. Of course, if there is any chance we have put others in danger, we take immediate steps to try to correct that.

Few things can so damage the possibility of healing in the family as a premature confession to spouse or family where sacred bonds and trust have been violated. Unwit­ tingly, such confessions can be attempts on our part to dump our guilt, get back into good graces, or make just another show of willpower. Great caution is advised here.

Amends to family must begin with a sexually sober, changed attitude and behavior on a daily basis. Then, as we grow in recovery, we will find how to make direct amends. Help from sponsor and group is indispensable here. There's always a way, if we really want to make things right."

Eventually amends must be made. But all things in wisdom and order."
posted at 01:36:43 on June 24, 2011 by they speak
wow, lol, funny funny....    
"my response....Adam and Eve were exiled out of the garden of eden for eating the fruit....they didn't kill anyone, they didn't committ adultery, they didnt lie or steal or cheat....they partook of the forbidden fruit..........one lousey little sin, kicked them out......truth be told....any sin will keep us out of the presence of god....one....thats all it takes...so sin in essence is exile and 'the spirit is grieved'

as in regards to your 'every one would be excommunicated' comments....1; not every one confesses...and unforturnatley we aren't held to the law of moses, in which most of all sexual sin would be paid for with death...so feel lucky, cause some people in history weren't

also, don't take everything so personal. name calling is just weak. but i am at a point in my life where i don't take those things so serious....i mean come on...just relax. you didn't read my post properly....read what is says in 1 John 3:15 again

"Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him"

^so according to John, if you hate [thoughts + actions] your brother, you are as guilty as a murderer.......and because of this you have no eternal life....so John is making hate as bad as murder which is #2 sin...so hate is worse then sexual sin, technically....so my thought and comment is your thoughts are what makes it so bad....as a man thinketh, so is he....

^another comment is this Romans 1:28 states this....
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge [you cant have god when your mb], God gave them over to a reprobate mind [your thoughts], to do those things which are not convenient;

29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication [to include masturbation] , wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Romans 2:1 continues
Therefore thou art inexcusable....

Clearly we can see where sin sits in the eyes of John and in the book of Romans....Verse 32 clearly expains that DEATH is the reward for those things....

So for me....i have been exd from the church, because of my actions and things that i had done...so, all im saying, when you walk on that slippery slope, your out come cant be good.

now, the lord, may extend mercy to us...the book of mormon talks about this alot....but don't go tempting god...."
posted at 13:54:34 on June 24, 2011 by skyteamst90
I knew you seemed off    
"Just to clarify for those who may not know any better, Sky didn't get exed for porn alone. Don't be discouraged or afraid about going to your bishop. Unlike some on here who are trying to justify porn and mb as being less sinful than other acts, sky wants others to believe that his more serious sins are equal to porn. Sky, I think the only one off track here is the exed guy condemning everyone, hoping to somehow bring them down to his pit of dispare. I'm sure his to catch a predator thread has more to do with him personally than he is letting on. This site isn't for bitter anti-s."
posted at 22:39:07 on June 24, 2011 by Anonymous
i dont know if that above post is sarcasim    
"i dont think im better then anyone, or smarter, or cooler, or more privialged, or better off...i am just a weak as the next guy + just as fragile. also i will just add i am not bitter towards the church. its not joesphs smiths problem my life is the way it is, its not president hinckley, or president monsons problem. i do have questions, but i have been given a few pieces here the last year. i have been given a little knowledge + insite. i have also been given a little hope, and i was given a miracle...so while my life is far from perfect, my hope was to try to share something that i had discovered, and made sense to me. i tried to communicate that in effort to try to help or lift someone up not bring themn down. i wasnt try to judge or condem, and if it came off that way i am sorry. iam sorry for the pasts posts i have made where i was upset, discouraged, and beaten. i was in a bad place then. my depression was high, my spirit low. so i apologize if i upset someone or offended somone. that was not my intnet. i will keep some of those comments to myself + just offer support. i know i tend to be fanatical or eccentric, but i think thats one of my quirks. im a work in progress.

so ya, i didnt mean to offend anyone + im not angry at the church, im not anti-mormon. also im not a preditor either. my father had called me that before when i was 19 + i wanted to date an 18 yo girl at church and he thought because i had a masturbation problem, that some how made me a predator...if i am bitter about anything, i am bitter about my father, the rightoues-preisthood holder-mormon. so i am aware of comments like that. i dont think it was directed at me. nonetheless, i am not offended at the ^anon post.

I was ex'd for more then just porn, yes. I committed adultery many times, not just once, many...and my heart was full of lies, anger, decite, + lust...all these this were bad + evil. I am now aware of my actions + working the road back. Its not easy + I applaud anyone who does have the courage to talk to a bish"
posted at 23:31:03 on June 24, 2011 by skyteamst90
Skyteam,    
"I applaud your insights and recovery. Some of us on here know how far you've come. So glad you can roll with the punches. That is one angry person's opinion. She's mad at her daddy, not you. If she was ready for recovery she would be on the spouses side instead of name-calling and trying to make excuses for her husband over here. Keep the comments coming. They are right on the money and not offensive at all."
posted at 00:12:20 on June 25, 2011 by Anonymous


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"We cannot keep one foot in the Church and one foot in the world. One reason is the world and the Church are rapidly diverging. We will lose our balance.We know that "no man can serve two masters." Some, I fear, are attempting to do what President Marion G. Romney described as trying to "serve the Lord without offending the devil." "

— Larry W. Gibbons

General Conference October 2006