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help with recovery
By humbled
12/14/2010 7:52:10 AM
I am in a very dark place right now. I have been sober for approximately 23 months. I have been proud of myself (in a good way) for the drastic changes I have made in my life. I unfortunatley was not one of the few who brought my addiction to my wife. I was not man enough at the time. Instead, she confronted me. Wow, long story short, what a burden to be released from the "secret."

Now it's on to the recovery stage. For the addicts out there that have been able to stay sober, you know the kinda high that I talk about when you think of all your accomplishents! However, my wife has really been struggling. Unfortunatley she was exposed to some of the material on my computer and now she can't get images out of her head. This has been greatly hindering every aspect of our healing together. I take full responsibiltiy for that.

She recently purchased a DVD set called "Helping Her Heal" by Dr. Doug Weiss. He is spot on with the feelings she is having. There is some great advice given throughout on how to help her. However, at the end of the first DVD he gives "3 rules for recovery":

1. Stay Clean: Obvious...but so true. I have been great with this.
2. Be Quiet: This one is hard. He says not to mention how well I am doing. This can make her even madder at me? As a note, when I do talk about my progression, I believe I am humble about it, but of course we don't understand each other anymore, and I'm sure she is not seeing the true intensions of my heart.
3. Don't defend yourself: I broke down in tears when I heard this!! My sweet wife, I truly love her and am sorry for what I have done. But she tells me that I would "rather live the other life." She says it with such conviction that it seems to rip me apart. I have made such a drastic change in my life. Understanding the true worth of a soul and coming to Christ. I am sorry she still feels such feelings toward me. Most of all now...It kills me that I am not allowed to defend myself that I don't want to go back to that lifestyle.

I don't know what to do!! I have destroyed her and I am greatly sorry for the pain I have caused in her life. I pray each day to have a better understanding of her pain, and what I can do to make her life easier. The love in our life is definatley dwindling away and it scares me greatly. I am in so much pain right now. I know I caused her pain, and I promise I'm not trying to take away from the pain I have caused her. Unfortunatley I have a history of suicidal thought patterns. I know I would never do anything...but I feel so alone right now. Last time I wrote I think I offended people because my feelings were lost in translation of my writing. I hope my humbled feelings are being portrayed correctly right now. I just really need some words of encouragement or ANYTHING right now to help me get through this!!

Comments:

Buddy your heart is broken and spirit seems quite contrite    
"AND THAT IS WHERE YOU WANT TO BE AND NEED TO BE.

I have he same challenges to deal with.

One word of advice incase you have missed the last month on this blog.

Try limit the discussion Dr Weiss, this place is not Weiss freindly. There are many anonymouses around that are above and beyond his advice and cringe in their boots when that dreadful name is released in writing. Especially by one of my biggest HERO's (sorry just had to). I have just bought his DVD and a few other books and cannot wait to see what he has to say but some have got the wrong end of the stick sharing his tools.


About your situation, let time do its thing, just acknowledge her pain, when she is angry she is in pain and feeling it heavily. That is when we need to acknowledge what we see and feel. It worked buddy last night I got it right, my wife was crying, angry and grieving, I went into the room put off the light, ready to close my eyes but I kneeled down and asked the Lord for help to do things right for a change because I know she needs me. We spoke at my request and after 5 mins of recognizing and acknowledging her pain, there was peace and we both slept well. It was a victory for the ages man. Serious moment to rejoice in.

Anyway maybe you are better at this than me.

Your wife loves you man. She bought "helping her heal," that is for you and she knows it. They want us to help them heal because they want to love us again. She bought it for her so she could heal but more importantly for you to help her heal.

Let time do its thing and keep your humble heart."
posted at 09:30:30 on December 14, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Defend yourself if you need to. Defend your need to recover.    
"We suffer from a mental disease and we are not supposed to let anyone belittle us because of it. If something you hear doesn't "feel" right, than it probably isn't. I'm all for helping HER heal but we must heal first! We are useless to our spouses if we can't heal ourselves and that can be impossible if we're constantly focused on THEIR recovery. It is OUR recovery that we need to focus on.

Ruggaexpat, you've turned into a prideful idiot. Apparently it is YOU who has transcended the need for us. I worry for you. I really thought we were over the Weiss contention but you guys want to keep it going."
posted at 10:26:44 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Wow Anonymous    
"What's with the personal attacks?"
posted at 10:35:28 on December 14, 2010 by BeClean
@Humbled    
"I am extremely proud of you. I am not extremely talented when it comes to being quiet and choosing not to defend myself. I don't know a lot of addicts who are. I am very impressed and proud with you. I also want to thank you for what you shared. It helped me very much.

You must help her heal because you and she are one. One in purpose. Its like the weakest link mentality (not that she is a weak link, but the devil will attack anyone who is even a little suseptable regardless of circumstance), no one gets left behind.

I have been blessed to have a father who was provided with an opportunity to change, not that he wasn't trying for years, and as such he has become a different man. He is helping me to change because we are a family. As such I disagree with the anonymous posting following Rugga's and say that recovery is a group effort of helping each other and ourselves to heal. I do not want to pull from the focus of Christ as the Great Physician in any way. But even doctors have nurses and a full medical staff. He can do it alone, sometimes He does, but mostly He does it with us."
posted at 10:58:52 on December 14, 2010 by Preemie
Thank you for the uplifting words of encouragement    
"Well I hope I didn't offend anybody with my Weiss comments. I know I didn't have the best of luck with him, but hopefully others do. I'm not really allowed to speak my opinion about healing in my house though, so I'm afraid to fully comment about his DVD's.

I am constantly reminded that I caused this problem and that I 'need to fix it.'

I fully understand what I did. (now I do) I truly am sorry for the pain I've caused and have done everything I can to try to fix it. Counselors, daily scripture 'study', weekly updates to my wife on how I am doing, 12 step program (including going to meetings), acknowledging her pain, and holding her when she 'just wants to be held'. The magic in our marriage is gone. We say we love each other, but I don't see her as the beat friend I once had. I know I'm making people cringe with that comment. You're going to say..'what do you expect, you broke her trust in you.' I know that, and I also know she is way to sweet of a spirit to have someone with my imperfections in her life.

Rugga, thank you for your uplifting words of encouragement. My wife tells me that all the time..'it's just going to take time'. My concern is that I feel like I have no one in my life anymore. I was told by my best friend (my wife) that I turn this into an issue 'about me.' that is why I so greatly appreciate your words that I need to be able to express my concerns. I wish my wife heard that from you!

Let me just reiterate that I know I caused this problem in an innocent persons life who did not deserve it. I need to step up and be a man. I just feel so alone being told to 'keep quite'. I'm just in such a dark place of desperation right now!!"
posted at 11:20:22 on December 14, 2010 by Humbled
Thank you for the uplifting words of encouragement    
"Well I hope I didn't offend anybody with my Weiss comments. I know I didn't have the best of luck with him, but hopefully others do. I'm not really allowed to speak my opinion about healing in my house though, so I'm afraid to fully comment about his DVD's.

I am constantly reminded that I caused this problem and that I 'need to fix it.'

I fully understand what I did. (now I do) I truly am sorry for the pain I've caused and have done everything I can to try to fix it. Counselors, daily scripture 'study', weekly updates to my wife on how I am doing, 12 step program (including going to meetings), acknowledging her pain, and holding her when she 'just wants to be held'. The magic in our marriage is gone. We say we love each other, but I don't see her as the beat friend I once had. I know I'm making people cringe with that comment. You're going to say..'what do you expect, you broke her trust in you.' I know that, and I also know she is way to sweet of a spirit to have someone with my imperfections in her life.

Rugga, thank you for your uplifting words of encouragement. My wife tells me that all the time..'it's just going to take time'. My concern is that I feel like I have no one in my life anymore. I was told by my best friend (my wife) that I turn this into an issue 'about me.' that is why I so greatly appreciate your words that I need to be able to express my concerns. I wish my wife heard that from you!

Let me just reiterate that I know I caused this problem in an innocent persons life who did not deserve it. I need to step up and be a man. I just feel so alone being told to 'keep quite'. I'm just in such a dark place of desperation right now!!"
posted at 11:34:47 on December 14, 2010 by Humbled
Thank you for the uplifting words of encouragement    
"Well I hope I didn't offend anybody with my Weiss comments. I know I didn't have the best of luck with him, but hopefully others do. I'm not really allowed to speak my opinion about healing in my house though, so I'm afraid to fully comment about his DVD's.

I am constantly reminded that I caused this problem and that I 'need to fix it.'

I fully understand what I did. (now I do) I truly am sorry for the pain I've caused and have done everything I can to try to fix it. Counselors, daily scripture 'study', weekly updates to my wife on how I am doing, 12 step program (including going to meetings), acknowledging her pain, and holding her when she 'just wants to be held'. The magic in our marriage is gone. We say we love each other, but I don't see her as the beat friend I once had. I know I'm making people cringe with that comment. You're going to say..'what do you expect, you broke her trust in you.' I know that, and I also know she is way to sweet of a spirit to have someone with my imperfections in her life.

Rugga, thank you for your uplifting words of encouragement. My wife tells me that all the time..'it's just going to take time'. My concern is that I feel like I have no one in my life anymore. I was told by my best friend (my wife) that I turn this into an issue 'about me.' that is why I so greatly appreciate your words that I need to be able to express my concerns. I wish my wife heard that from you!

Let me just reiterate that I know I caused this problem in an innocent persons life who did not deserve it. I need to step up and be a man. I just feel so alone being told to 'keep quite'. I'm just in such a dark place of desperation right now!!"
posted at 11:38:01 on December 14, 2010 by Humbled
Humbled...    
"Unfortunately, I have no advice to give. I'm only approaching confession to my wife. I will pray for you and your wife. When others find healing it gives me hope. Sometimes that hope is much too hard to find in these situations."
posted at 11:49:52 on December 14, 2010 by paul
I’m sorry I’m taking so long    
"I’m pretty sure that this is my husband. So I’m going to say it. I love you…whether you believe it or not. I wish I could give you what you want right now. I don’t own parts of myself. If I had a whole heart to give to you, I would.
Please heal with me! Please. I get the fact you are a better man. Now I’m the one with the problem. I’m broken. I could fake it, but that didn’t help us before. I’m broken.
Please defend the man you are today!! Please please do! But please don’t explain away any of the man you used to be, none of that will ever make sense to me.
Be quiet. No details please. I know enough.
Be clean. Yes please!
I’m trying to stay connected to you. It’s so hard. Loving you and being connected to you is why I’m in so much pain. Usually you run from what hurts…but when you love the source, it’s hard. It just is.

I know I go back and forth. My emotions are all over the place. But right now this minute…I want to tell you…YOU ARE WORTH ALL THE PAIN. The chance to be by your side is worth this pain.

I love you Mr. Humbled! "
posted at 11:51:00 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Wow...    
"This has been a hard day for me. But I want to say Thank You to both Mr and Mrs Humbled.

I am at work right now and have tears in my eyes. Thank you. And I will continue to pray for you and your family.

Thank you!"
posted at 12:06:53 on December 14, 2010 by paul
Humbled    
"I am not your wife, but I am one who has healed. I am reluctant to open my mouth so to speak on these forums, I am afraid of being slammed, but I am going to go forth. As I read this earlier this morning I wanted to think about things before answering you. The advice from Dr. Weiss is good, you asked about where can you talk and I can understand your feelings. The ARP meetings are a good place for you to go and talk there for now. When he says don't defend yourself I think he is referring to your actions as someone who was into porn or whatever. Many have a habit of minimizing and rationalizing, that is probably what he was talking about when he said don't defend. THAT BEING SAID, please understand that your wife is in a vulnerable position. She is broken, hurt and devastated. Now as a woman who has healed, may I tell you a few things that you can do to help her? Take them or leave them I offer them in love. If there is a temple near, please put her name on the prayer roll and keep it there. Pray for her. Please note that there is a difference between praying for her and praying about her. That was a lesson I had to learn. What are some of the things you can pray for? Pray that she can healed, acknowledge the pain that you have caused and ask the Lord specifically for the guidance you need to be able to help her in her own recovery. The Lord knows her better than she knows herself at this point. He can help you to "know" what you can say and do. Please don't be in a hurry. It doesn't have to take forever, but probably will take longer than you would like. The concept of forgiveness can be hard at this point for a wife to understand. To forgive sometimes feels like it is saying that what was done was ok, when it most certainly was not. Pray for her to have a true understanding of what forgiveness will mean for her and for you. Forgiveness in this is about her removing herself from the situation and letting it be between you and God, that is sometimes hard to do. Wives have need of the 12 steps themselves. Pray for her to be able to gather her faith so that she can "cast" this burden at the Lord's feet. What I am going to say now may not be popular, but it is a truth. She has agency and how she chooses to use it/offer it will determine how fast she heals. (Please don't slam me women, it was hard for me to swallow at the time too). The only thing you control in this situation Bro. Humbled is your repentance/healing. She will be in control of hers. The Atonement is real. The 12 steps are for both. You and she can be free from all of this. It takes faith and work, but it can be done. To your wife I say Sister I can understand your pain. I have lived it, it was hard to work through it, but I am so grateful for the healing power our Savior offered us through the Atonement. I KNOW you can be healed, just keep putting one foot in front of the other, when you trip or stumble, get back up and keep moving forward. Step three is the hardest, but man when you truly turn it over miracles happen. I have seen it and felt it. GOOD LUCK TO BOTH OF YOU!"
posted at 13:01:55 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Surrender    
"If you want to accelerate your wife's healing, surrender yourself to her and to God.

I had an epiphany about this a while back. In the scriptures the Lord tell us, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me." (Luke 9:23). It came to me that in order to save myself (35 years addicted) I had to give it all up - everything - and follow the Lord.

So I recommitted my life to God. Then I knelt before my wife and told her that I took full responsibility for all the damage caused by my sins, and promised her that it was no longer about me - it's now about her. I live each day to serve her and make her happy. I don't think about myself any more. And she knows she's become number 1 in my life (right after God, of course).

This change has been so freeing to my spirit. I feel like a huge weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I truly love her and she knows it.

Is every day great? No - but every day is greater than the previous 20+ years married and indulging in my addictions.

She is healing personally and we are healing together.

So, my simple advice is to hold her, love her, help her heal. Forget yourself and make her #1 in your life. She will see your sincerity, your love together will grow and your marriage will heal. That's what the Atonement is all about.

One last thing to help - try Dr. W's Intimacy Anorexia exercises to help rebuild your relationship with your wife. These simple exercises have made a huge difference in our relationship."
posted at 13:12:45 on December 14, 2010 by BARM
Humbled    
"I am pretty sure I know who your sweet wife is. If it is her, she has been a serious help to me in understanding my pain right from the get go. She has expressed a great need to get close to you and so trust her now not yourself."
posted at 13:46:40 on December 14, 2010 by ruggaexpat
anon    
"OK I just got to let you know something.
If I offended you I am sorry, I am on this site for one purpose and one only, TO HELP MY WIFE HEAL. I have stated that ever since I got here on this site.

About the Weiss thing well here let me give you what I really think. It has been rediculous how some people have taken BYOUROWNHERO down. It was uncalled for in many respects. People could have been a tad more sensitive to her feelings in the wave of negative responses thrown her way. This is to you and I don't feel 100% comfy discussing any Weiss stuff because there is just a wierd vibe going on and US MORMONS ONLY NEED THE ARP PROGRAM. Dude many like you can sit there and say anything without regard for others, well wake up buddy it hurts the already hurt.

You really think we must heal first before our loved ones? Let me speak from my experience as this is the only one I know: My wife is going to heal no matter what, she will do it with or without me so I have a choice to help her in the process right? Brother it is a no brainer. I argue that you have it wrong and you will never heal completely until those you hurt do.

One correction: I HAVE NOT TURNED INTO A PRIDEFUL IDIOT, I HAVE BEEN ONE FOR A SERIOUSLY LONG TIME NOW. At least we are now on the same page."
posted at 14:00:43 on December 14, 2010 by ruggaexpat
To the Anonymous sister who thought she may be slammed by other women...    
"You are right on the money, my dear! I agree with EVERYTHING you posted.

And to Mrs. Humbled. You are a wonderful woman yourself! I love you for that post to your husband. It has also been my experience in recovery that my husband's path to recovery is not my path and it doesn't need to be. Maybe it isn't even supposed to be. Other couples are different. We had been codependent for so long it was hard finding my own path to recovery and allowing him his. There is a saying, "Two sickies do not equal one wellie" Before we found our own recovery paths we were like to crabs in a bucket. Everytime one of us almost made it out of the bucket, the other would yank the other one back down. Please remember this time-honored saying, "Expectations are simply resentments in the making." If his path doesn't involve Dr. Weiss, it's OK. Many husbands have recovered without his help. I am glad that Hero, Barm, Angelmom, and Ruggaexpat and their families have found healing in his programs. That is a WONDERFUL thing. But it is not the ONLY way. If it works for you, that is wonderful. If it makes him uncomfortable, allow him to recover the way many other men, including my husband, have. And it appears to me that you are doing just that. You are an awesome person, in my opinion. It sounds like your husband is, too."
posted at 14:16:13 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
To the Anonymous sister who thought she may be slammed by other women...    
"You are right on the money, my dear! I agree with EVERYTHING you posted.

And to Mrs. Humbled. You are a wonderful woman yourself! I love you for that post to your husband. It has also been my experience in recovery that my husband's path to recovery is not my path and it doesn't need to be. Maybe it isn't even supposed to be. Other couples are different. We had been codependent for so long it was hard finding my own path to recovery and allowing him his. There is a saying, "Two sickies do not equal one wellie" Before we found our own recovery paths we were like to crabs in a bucket. Everytime one of us almost made it out of the bucket, the other would yank the other one back down. Please remember this time-honored saying, "Expectations are simply resentments in the making." If his path doesn't involve Dr. Weiss, it's OK. Many husbands have recovered without his help. I am glad that Hero, Barm, Angelmom, and Ruggaexpat and their families have found healing in his programs. That is a WONDERFUL thing. But it is not the ONLY way. If it works for you, that is wonderful. If it makes him uncomfortable, allow him to recover the way many other men, including my husband, have. And it appears to me that you are doing just that. You are an awesome person, in my opinion. It sounds like your husband is, too."
posted at 14:20:40 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Thanks recent anon - healed loved one    
"But I have not found healing yet from anything other than the ARP. I am interested in reading Weiss to see what the excitement is all about.
Very curious and keen to learn and heal."
posted at 14:27:15 on December 14, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Ruggaexpat    
"You're not a prideful idiot. You're very humble from where I am sitting."
posted at 14:30:02 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Couple thoughts...    
"I'm sure my sweet wife will not mind me saying this. She is different from her posts here on the site and in our home. We have had this conversation a lot that I wish she gave me half the support in real life that she gives the members on this site. Don't get me wrong...she is a wonderful person. She has just said that it is easier to give support to people that she doesn't love. That sounds bad...I don't mean it like it sounds. Well...I should have her explain it, my words always get mistaken. 

This is certainly a hard trial for both. One realization I had to come to was that I needed to heal for myself. Whether my wife decided to stay by my side is her decision. I would have loved to have her by my side for all eternity. Thank you anonymous for your kind words. My sweet wife, bless her soul, has had an extremely hard time with this. It's been 'out of the closet' for close to 2 yrs now. She has to sedate herself (seriously...with prescription sedatives) to live with me and go through this. What's hard is that she used to be SO against taking Rx's, let alone even tylenol. I feel like she is frequently not even home because she is so snockered. I know I caused this, but I am taking it very hard knowing what my wife has to go through because of what I have done. She just doesn't deserve this!!

What's hardest is that despite my hardest attempts, she just doesn't understand me. She will ask why I never come to her to talk, yet just the night before she told me that when I come to her I am focusing too much about myself. I think that is precisely what dr. W was talking about when he said to be quiet. So I get in trouble either way. 

It sure is great to hear that some couples can heal from this. I just get discouraged sometimes. Luckily I don't relapse with my discouraged stages...I'm not going there again, especially knowing now what it does to the soul, let alone the couple!! I hope ours has a happy outcome. I just feel like we're running in circles. Boy I wish I could go back in time to change things. We could of had the most perfect life!! I can't tell you how hard it is to have to just keep my thoughts to myself! I'm dying inside!!"
posted at 16:47:06 on December 14, 2010 by Humbled
From Heartache to Healing    
"I am a recovering spouse. I too had to confront my husband. This may seem minor in the scheme of things, but it is not. The fact that I had to confront him about his behavior and then be lied to again and again in an effort to protect himself and his actions only compounded the negative effects of his infidelities. Discovery for a spouse is much more traumatic and harder to recover from. You most likely know this, if not then take note.

The images and correspondences, what ever is exposed because of your behavior, are the most debilitating event in her life with you. I had to turn those images and thoughts over to my Savior. There is no other way to free yourself. No mind over matter exercise. No words, no deeds, no excuses, no rationalizations, NOTHING. But my Savior took the sting out of those images and other details revealed in the discovery process. I had to do this over and over. My Jesus Box is now a TRUNK!

For those of you who have not disclosed your behavior to your wife, DO IT, before she find out. She will, the Lord will lead her to discovery of your behavior one way or another. I have witnessed this over and over with the sisters in my group. Those sisters who have this atomic bomb dropped on them by disclosure although equally devastating recover faster. You are not smarter than Heavenly Father. He knows, and he will not be patient as long as you may think.. His laws are His.....And there are consequences for breaking HIS laws.

RATHER LIVE THE OTHER LIFE! I believed this because my husband did not come to me in repentance. He was discovered. He got caught, found out. So would he be going through the process if he was not found out? Would he still be loving his addiction more than me because that is what he chose to protect? His behavior! Not me! Not our covenants! Not my heart! Not any aspect of my life, what makes me who I am and how I relate in this world did he chose to protect. Men love what they protect.

Find a friend in recovery if you do not have one and share with him your thoughts that you need to release.

Listen closely to what Barm had to say. On the Intimacy Anorexia, those exercises saved our relationship. My husband and I. I am not married to Barm. I could not heal even though my husband stopped acting out in his SA. He still had character weaknesses that had been exercised for generations. Behaviors as to how he talked to me or did not talk to me, how he thought about me and what I was thinking! This caused the pain to resurface. He did not even realize what he was doing that was so wrong. I wish we were still doing those exercises, daily. I try to with out the pomp and circumstances. This is the balm you wife may be needing.

Intimacy Anorexia does not only effect the man in an addictive relationship. It can also effect the spouse. Your wife may have acquired some Anorexic behaviors in living with your addiction. This could also be the reason you are suffering so. I would recommend you both checking this one out. You are so far along in your recovery and yet there is still so much pain.

"You could of had the most perfect life."
You still can. In fact it is my experience, life and marriage in recovery are the best. It is work and effort. AMAAZING! Nothing short of a miracle. Our relationship is light years ahead of where it was even before the bomb hit. Our physical, emotional and spiritual relationship is atomic! So amazing I some time think. 'WHAT WERE WE DOING BEFORE?" When you heal together YOU WILL HAVE THE MOST PERFECT LIFE! The life your Heavenly Father planned for you.

I am sensitive to this, and I do not want to offend, and I say this with love and hope for you and your wife's recovery, but, I hear alot of selfishness still in your remarks.

Love and Prayers,
Hero"
posted at 17:47:36 on December 14, 2010 by Hero
Hero    
"So beautiful. Every word your spoke was pure truth to my ears. I feel so blessed to heal with my husband. I was going that direction either way and I know that I will never be completely whole until I complete the process over and over again.

I never knew I could love him the way I do now. In many ways he was just like Humbled. Who he is now, is so different than who he was and it is his humiity that inspires me and draws me closer to him like never before. I can't get enough of this man.

Anon, DONT BUGGA OUR RUGGA. The man is an inspiration and a broken record. "Please oh pretty please someone, anyone help me to stop being a selfish jerk and teach me how to help my wife." Rugga, you are a real man and as you "get it" completely, I have no idea what you are going to write about on this blog :) ....... Your wife must be amazing as we can all see how much you adore and love her. Miracles are happening for you and your family and I love seeing it happen to you. You are humble and ready to do what needs to be done and all I can say, is "lucky Mrs. Rugga".

So, ANON let's hear you talk about the love you have for your spouse. Let's hear how she inspires you or how you love her and how you treat everyday like it is her birthday!!! Please talk about all of the great healing you and your wife have done, Let's hear about it. We will all listen. We are all searching. Inspire us and stop attacking our Hero and Rugga.

Ah and I almost forgot,

I say this with love in my heart :)

Angel"
posted at 18:55:47 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Hero,    
"Could it be that your marriage improved when YOU finally got some recovery under your belt? Your focus is always so much on the addict and what HE must do. It sounds like your husband recovered through SA. I am just wondering if it was when you and Dr. Weiss got a program worked out for you, that your marriage improved. Of course, it probably "appeared" that it was your husband that got better.

Women, don't think that YOU can't heal unless your husbands DO something. You can recover with or without your husbands recovery or support. To those wives who have recently found some relief with this Weiss program, good for you. But you are still NEW to recovery. Some of us have been recovering for years without his concepts. You're beginning to contradict OUR program of recovery. Time will tell.

And I almost forgot, I say this with love in my heart."
posted at 20:51:41 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
More thouts    
"I say this from a local  hotel. She booted me. We just don't understand eachothers desires. I ask something from her  and it is great for a day or two...but back to the old ways. And vise versa. She said she has 'nothing to give' a. A less sedated individual that should recognize the possibilities of what we have around. Instead we get to to
Lie about separation and divorce. I would much rather just try to tough it out! Poor thing, she is so week she doesn't even know what to do. All she knows is that she doesn't want menin her life right now why she goes through these precesses! I offered to stay and help, but I'm Not strong enough!"
posted at 22:17:59 on December 14, 2010 by HumblEd
Oh Im so sorry dear Humbled    
"I have not read the whole tread... but just your last one. All I wan to tell you right now is Do not give up!!!! Surrender to the Lord, pray, give your heart again to him, find confort in his love and the assurance that he will come to your aid and soften your heart and the heart of your wife. Do not give up, do not give in despair, look to the light, look to Christ, .. right now, where ever you are ... angels are watching over you.....
I will pray for you tonight
crushed"
posted at 22:34:15 on December 14, 2010 by crushed
Be Quiet?    
"My wife and I have discussed, and we don't even understand the concept behind Dr. Weiss' suggestion that the addict "be quiet" to help the spouse heal. The way Humbled described it, the addict is not supposed to mention how well he is doing to his spouse.

Most of you know that my wife and I have been 100% honest about my struggles (and everything else) since we were dating. This new suggestion from the Dr. sounds completely backwards to us. My wife is delighted when I say, "hey...it's been x years/months since I looked at porn," or "I was tempted today when...but I overcame by...." She mentioned today that if she weren't to hear these phrases from me for several weeks or months, she'd probably start wondering when she's going to hear about a slip up.

Is it different for other couples? Can someone explain this "be quiet" idea to me? It doesn't seem like something that would work in my marriage...but am I missing something?"
posted at 22:45:27 on December 14, 2010 by BeClean
Humbled    
"Crushed said what I wanted to say to you before I could say it."
posted at 22:47:25 on December 14, 2010 by BeClean
Sorry Humbled & Envy from ANON    
"There is only one clear cut answer in your life. Your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. No one can heal you other than him. There are great tools everywhere, however this work of finding the Atonement is something you must do on your knees, in the scriptures, and though much personal honesty. You will find the answers you seek. I know this to be a truth.

Your wife is telling you her truth. She has nothing left to give. I am praying for you and your wife this night and asking for peace and comfort, that you and your wife may feel the love of our Father in Heaven.

Anon, I believe you have issues with HERO because you wish you were her. Her life is full and happy. She is a Daughter of God and a Missionary for him as well. Silly Anon, obviously she has done her own work. No one can do it for you. You must pass through that individually.

But one person can't heal a marriage, it takes both people to heal a marriage. I am grateful that my husband decided to join me after years of me trying to do it alone. I cannot understand why you, who say you are so far down the path of recovery attack so much. Especially someone who has helped so many.

I am no newbe to recovery. I was participating in 12 steps long before the church ever opened it's eyes to it. So please don't assume you know anything about Hero, me or others. It is my husband who is a real man now and owns what he did, and that gift is something you cannot take away from me or my family. I feel like you want us to fail. It's weird. If your life is so full, why attack people who are helping so many. All good things come from God, and Hero brings good things.

Lastly, our's (Barm and myself) recovery did not happen overnight by any stretch. This has been years in the making. I only hope you will one day feel the joy we feel.

There is only one clear cut answer in your life. Your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. No one can heal you other than him. There are great tools everywhere, however this work of finding the Atonement is something you must do on your knees, in the scriptures, and though much personal honesty. You will find the answers you seek. I know this to be a truth.

Your wife is telling you her truth. She has nothing left to give. I am praying for you and your wife this night and asking for peace and comfort, that you and your wife may feel the love of our Father in Heaven.

Anon, I believe you have issues with HERO because you wish you were her. Her life is full and happy. She is a Daughter of God and a Missionary for him as well. Silly Anon, obviously she has done her own work. No one can do it for you. You must pass through that individually.

But one person can't heal a marriage, it takes both people to heal a marriage. I am grateful that my husband decided to join me after years of me trying to do it alone. I cannot understand why you, who say you are so far down the path of recovery attack so much. Especially someone who has helped so many.

I am no newbe to recovery. I was participating in 12 steps long before the church ever opened it's eyes to it. So please don't assume you know anything about Hero, me or others. It is my husband who is a real man now and owns what he did, and that gift is something you cannot take away from me or my family. I feel like you want us to fail. It's weird. If your life is so full, why attack people who are helping so many. All good things come from God, and Hero brings good things.

Lastly, our's (Barm and myself) recovery did not happen overnight by any stretch. This has been years in the making. I only hope you will one day feel the joy we feel.

I am releasing your hurtful comments to the Lord and will not give another thought to your attacks against such an amazing Sister...

Goodnight and good-bye

Angel


I am releasing your hurtful comments to the Lord and will not give another thought to your attacks against such an amazing woman...


I am done responding to such hate filled posts and would like to invite others who have grown tired of these attacks to do the same.

Goodnight and good-bye

Angel"
posted at 23:25:43 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Angel    
"To which anon are you addressing your comments? There are several who have posted. I posted a comment to humbled and am not sure what I could have said to set you off as to jealousy of Hero. I said I almost didn't post because I didn't want to get slammed and bam I am slammed."
posted at 23:51:16 on December 14, 2010 by Anonymous
Anonymous above,    
"It wasn't you she was slamming. Your comments were spot on. It was me. I can take it. I deserved some of it. I think there is enough blame to go around, though. What Angelmom takes as "attacking Hero" is actually just "defending the addict". I am genuinely curious what Twelve-Step Program failed you so badly, Angelmom? My husband is quite wonderful to me and he has never even heard of "Intimacy Anorexia". I've felt very fulfilled in my marriage for a long time now but maybe my marriage is really an illusion. Maybe Angelmom is right and it really is because I want to BE Hero. I'll look into that. Probably not, though.

I am just the anonymous voice of a successful recovering spouse. My husband goes to SA and ARP. I go to SA's spouses program and ARP and they don't cost a dime. That IS still an option isn't it?"
posted at 00:23:33 on December 15, 2010 by Anonymous
BECLEAN    
"I have read zero of his stuff but if he shares my understanding of how to help my wife, be quiet does not mean just keep quiet and let her think. It probably means that when she is angry (in other words feeling hurt and pain), we should not talk about our own pain. We should not turn the attention in any way or form to what we are feeling. It is about her at that moment because she is in pain. I think this is what it means.

Many times this year especially in the beginning, my wife would say hurtful things as her way to express the pain and me being selfish and victim, I took it personally and then responded about how hurtful her words and actions were being.

Now I simple sit and try listen, active listening and try understand her feelings. It is so hard for me to do and yet so easy to sit and want her to understand my pain. She cannot at this time and that is fine with me."
posted at 09:09:33 on December 15, 2010 by ruggaexpat
May I suggest something?    
"We always suggest that women download the support manual and work the 12 steps, it might also be good for the husbands to also read this and see what the women are being told and working through. Just a suggestion. Though understand that this book is not used everywhere yet, they are still developing, but there is some very good stuff nonetheless."
posted at 10:01:01 on December 15, 2010 by Anonymous
Good suggestion    
"I have read some of it and my wife studies it daily.
It definately is an amazing piece of literature."
posted at 10:16:23 on December 15, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Staying quiet    
"I have definitely learned the impact that staying quiet has on this. That's have been a few instances while listening to her derogatory remarks I have just bit my lip. One time in particular, I very nicely told her that what she was saying was really hurting me. Mostly because they were false accusations. I politely asked her to 'take it back' and I would pretend she didn't say it....so looked me in the eyes and repeated exactly what I just said was hurting me. She later apologized....but it still hurt. Most recently has been the issue which I've ready mentioned: her stating that I 'prefer the life of sin.' I tried defending myself but realized that she doesn't understand me. If she really thinks these things of me...well it's no wonder the magic is gone in our marriage. I know I caused this mess and I have manned up to that issue and have done everything she and the church has asked to make mends. I have come to know my savior. I still struggle with the atonement and my testimony. Mainly due to the reasons of confusion. I pray someday I can fully grasp the impact of it. My biggest hope is that someday my wife will understand me. Why does she still think I'm such an evil person? Why does she think I'm not trying my hardest, when I have done everything in my power to try to not just fix this issue, but come to the Lord in humility. She tells me she used to view me as a superman...now I just feel like chopped liver. She tells me 'how could I have been so stupid' (referring to herself), and says that she will never be that person again. I know when I married her I committed to love and cherish through sickness and health...but I need some support here too. I hope I don't sound like I'm trying to turn this around and make it 'about me', I'm not. I just feel so dark and alone and like I'm the only one who is actually on my side. I know I won't follow through with the thoughts, but boy I feel alone! I miss my sweet bride so much! I never thought we would separate. I miss being able to talk to her and actually understand and believe what I'm saying.

If you havnt told your spouse yet....please please DO IT!!! Trust me, your life will be so much better."
posted at 10:28:30 on December 15, 2010 by Humbled
I dont know...    
"I don't know if I have anything I can offer that will help. My heart hurts for you and your wife Humbled. The complete loss of respect, trust, and love is what I fear most about confession. I fear that loss because I do love my wife. She is everything to me. And I know you feel the same.

We all need support to get through this, and that is exactly what you are asking for. I know you are trying not to turn things around and make them about you, but when you ask for support it may seem to her like that is exactly what you are doing. Based on her previous comments, I'm sure she wants nothing more than to be that support and that foundation of love that you need. She does love you, but she is still too hurt to give any amount of energy to anyone else.

In fact, while it may seem impossible, you have to be her support. All of us here, and more importantly, the Saviour, will have to be your support for now.

I have said this to Rugga as well, but I want nothing more than to see you two heal with each other. I don't know that I can express how much hope it gives me to see other couples heal. Please do not give up, when you have no strength, rely on the Lord, come to us for encouragement, do what you must. But do not give in to your previous mistakes, and certainly do not ever give up on your wife.

I have and will continue to pray for both of you. I hope you both can feel some degree of our Father's care and love for you, and pray that you can game some strength in that."
posted at 10:55:49 on December 15, 2010 by paul
Her Feelings    
"don't have to be rational. They don't have to be fact. They a just feelings. She is just trying to make sense of something that makes no sense at all. I have said all that you say she says. The only way to convince her is to stay sober, listen, and shut up. Shup up does not mean not speaking at all. It means having no expectations of her listening to you. When you need to vent, call someone from your group.

I promise this is the fastest pathway to helping her heal. It works. I am experiencing it and be patient. It takes time. Have faith. It takes time. When she see's that you care more about the pain she is in and helping her than your own pain, she will slowly come aorund. My husband's doing this has made me respect him more, and I at many times felt and reacted as your wife did. In time, she will want to understand why you did what you did and she will want to know so that she can understand you, not attack you. For now, she is just crazy in the brain and needs you to be a man and step up!

My husband lets me say anything to let it out. I did not choose this life I am living. I kept my covenants. I honored my husband. He hurt my and our family badly. That does not go away overnight. But as you put all of her needs above yours and let go, she will respond in a way that will surprise you. My husband did this, and is still patiently doing this for me every day. He loves me that much. To him, his feelings don't matter any more. He stopped protecting his heart and gave it all to me and now his heart is healing at a quick pace.

He gave me a gift I never thought possible and I feel more free and open that I have in 23 years. Give her this gift . Love her more than you love yourself and God will bless you with strength. Humbled, my husband is a different man and his humility has caused me to look at
my actions towards him and I am more careful with his feelings than I have been in the past.

Before, I could never even think of eternity at all. I was just trying to survive each day.
Now we are building a heavenly marriage together and I owe it all to God, Jesus Christ, a good trainer (Dr. W), and my humble husband who I now know loves me more than life itself.

You can do this, I see it in you. Go for it!! Give her the best Christmas gift you have ever given her. you will not regret it one bit. Be patient, it will work.

Love,
Angel"
posted at 11:06:46 on December 15, 2010 by Anonymous
Her Feelings    
"don't have to be rational. They don't have to be fact. They a just feelings. She is just trying to make sense of something that makes no sense at all. I have said all that you say she says. The only way to convince her is to stay sober, listen, and shut up. Shup up does not mean not speaking at all. It means having no expectations of her listening to you. When you need to vent, call someone from your group.

I promise this is the fastest pathway to helping her heal. It works. I am experiencing it and be patient. It takes time. Have faith. It takes time. When she see's that you care more about the pain she is in and helping her than your own pain, she will slowly come aorund. My husband's doing this has made me respect him more, and I at many times felt and reacted as your wife did. In time, she will want to understand why you did what you did and she will want to know so that she can understand you, not attack you. For now, she is just crazy in the brain and needs you to be a man and step up!

My husband lets me say anything to let it out. I did not choose this life I am living. I kept my covenants. I honored my husband. He hurt my and our family badly. That does not go away overnight. But as you put all of her needs above yours and let go, she will respond in a way that will surprise you. My husband did this, and is still patiently doing this for me every day. He loves me that much. To him, his feelings don't matter any more. He stopped protecting his heart and gave it all to me and now his heart is healing at a quick pace.

He gave me a gift I never thought possible and I feel more free and open that I have in 23 years. Give her this gift . Love her more than you love yourself and God will bless you with strength. Humbled, my husband is a different man and his humility has caused me to look at
my actions towards him and I am more careful with his feelings than I have been in the past.

Before, I could never even think of eternity at all. I was just trying to survive each day.
Now we are building a heavenly marriage together and I owe it all to God, Jesus Christ, a good trainer (Dr. W), and my humble husband who I now know loves me more than life itself.

You can do this, I see it in you. Go for it!! Give her the best Christmas gift you have ever given her. you will not regret it one bit. Be patient, it will work.

Love,
Angel"
posted at 11:07:05 on December 15, 2010 by angelmom
Me again    
"Humbled I know EXACTLY what you are feeling. It is normal, not abnormal. She must know you are changing and want to leave the old guy behind to rot by the way-side.

I have spent countless days and late nights biting my lip. I am surprized it is not the size of my head. I am still sleaping in a different room, was on the couch for months. I have never felt so alone in all my life in those moments. My wife is doing better but we are not anywhere close.
She is no longer co dependent which is a great thing and has completely detatched emotionally which was important for her to do. Sounds like your wife has done the same thing and doing it.

It does get better I promise. It has taken months of misunderstandings, hurt and pain but we are healing and you will too. Just got to wait on 2 parties. Her and the Lord. In general the recovering addict is impatient. I am literally a teenager emotionally and wanted this healing process to get a move on, it does not work that way. It takes time.

She must love you, is preparing her heart for you again. It is obvious there is no one else she imagines her life with. Give her time, give her your ear and keep reaching out. I used this community as a primary tool to help understand my wife and her ordeal. Sisters like Hero, Angel, Crushed, Summer, a bunch of others have all made a difference.

We are on the right track in my opinion."
posted at 11:07:06 on December 15, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Clean- It is about timing    
"It is simple. Don't go on about how great you are doing in the midst of her pain and struggles. Don't say, "that's too bad your hurting today honey", "maybe if your knew that I am 100000 days sober you would feel better', then toss some tissues her way and say, "hurry up we've got places to be". or you should be happy, I'm clean:)

It is a matter of timing and sensitivity, that's all. Dr. Weiss suggests focusing on her healing. She heals faster, you heal faster. He is big on "Be a Real Man" and for me who waited for a very long time for this, It is working.

I ask my husband daily about his recovery and love hearing it all!!!!

Hope that helps clear it up.

Love you all so much. You ae all a daily blessing in my life."
posted at 11:15:07 on December 15, 2010 by angelmom
Humbled,    
"I can imagine you're going through a hard time. I just want you to know that you sound a lot different from the guy who posted here about a year ago. I have a lot of respect for you and your wonderful wife, and I honestly believe you two will be able to pull through.

Just a suggestion, I've found that having an experienced sponsor has helped me feel less alone through this process. I think what everyone is saying about "being quiet" to your spouse/loved one is probably right. I find it much easier to be candid about my hardships with my sponsor than with my fiancee because my sponsor isn't intimately tied to me.

Best of luck to you."
posted at 11:16:35 on December 15, 2010 by ette
Clean- It is about timing    
"It is simple. Don't go on about how great you are doing in the midst of her pain and struggles. Don't say, "that's too bad your hurting today honey", "maybe if your knew that I am 100000 days sober you would feel better', then toss some tissues her way and say, "hurry up we've got places to be". or you should be happy, I'm clean:)

It is a matter of timing and sensitivity, that's all. Dr. Weiss suggests focusing on her healing. She heals faster, you heal faster. He is big on "Be a Real Man" and for me who waited for a very long time for this, It is working.

I ask my husband daily about his recovery and love hearing it all!!!!

Hope that helps clear it up.

Love you all so much. You ae all a daily blessing in my life."
posted at 11:21:37 on December 15, 2010 by angelmom
Oh thanks Angel for clearing that up    
"Goodness I have made that mistake countless times too.
You do know though why we do it right?
Because we want the wife to know we are clean and want to shout it from the rooftops. It is a way of showing our confidence.

Having said that it has done nothing but land me in trouble with her recovery so it makes sense to for a better expression "put a cork in it". I realize now there there was never a time to bring my celebration in her face.

All good points. I am learning big time from these recent threads.
Thanks Humbled for bringing this one up."
posted at 11:23:03 on December 15, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Whoowaa?? HUMBLED!    
"Now that i've written this i've gotta make a disclaimer. I may be way out of bounds here Humbled. If I am, totally disregard it without a second thought.

either I missed the post where you validated your wifes post telling you you're worth the hell, or you missed her post, or you validated her at home, or that's not your wife... Otherwise, you missed it dude! Or am I missing something?

Obviously I only see her awesome post that made even me, the most hardened stone cold heart of the harderton family, want to buy her flowers. And I know I don't see how tough the whole picture is. But even still, in my not so humble and completely hypocritical opinion...a long grovel/love post was in good order. But not because it was the order. Rather, because clearly, at least for a few seconds, your wife is a total bad-A!

I don't know this Doug guy and I don't give hoot. My guess is this is what he means by "be quiet": validate the shit out of her even sometimes at the postponement of your own feelings...and especially when shes being a super dope radical chick (see your anonymous wife post above for example)! But really most especially when they are mourning. Ya know? Like Jesus taught. That's not recovery or some break thru therapy that's just good common courtesy. Jesus sure was a courtious fellow. In fact as I look even now as I write I can't help but notice the root word court there. I'm gonna look that baby up.

Sorry man, your life in that hotel probably sucks and I don't mean to come down on a proceeved miss step. Its definitely not my style. But come here get it off your chest and then go cook your wife dinner or something and tell her you heard her here...like really heard her...like saw into her...and say it untill sees/hears you. Holy Ghost baby! I think that's being quiet. Being still."
posted at 11:43:04 on December 15, 2010 by They speak
Oh man    
"I'm a few post back already. Hope that's not to irrelevant now."
posted at 11:44:47 on December 15, 2010 by They speak
Thanks but...    
"Thank you for your response, but words mean nothing if there is no physical action. Your right, my wife is one sweet chick!! Extremely attractive and had a great personality. I totally destroyed a perfect soul. To fully explain our situation would be a novel...I'll spare you the boring text. I just don't feel like we are a team anymore. I've begged her to come back to me, but she says she 'has nothing to give'. I think i'm just so burned right now. I'm tired, depressed, and losing hope. I know this is all probably sounding real bad. I wish you could see and feel the intentions of my heart. It brings tears to my eyes just wishing I could be understood!"
posted at 12:17:20 on December 15, 2010 by Humbled
Words    
"Words mean nothing without faith. It was with words Christ calmed the storm.

Don't you feel like a lotta bra's on here understand you? Or do you mean be understood by your wife only?"
posted at 12:28:45 on December 15, 2010 by They speak
Humbled    
"It sounds like a perfect time to work on yourself. Give her time."
posted at 12:40:25 on December 15, 2010 by Anonymous
Humbled's wife    
"This guy has felt the way I have and I know that if he is as serious as I am, he just wants a sign that he still does have a shot at winning your heart back. That is all we need to fire us up and get out of that dark place inside ourselves. I look every day for some sign that she cares, for some hint that I have a shot.

I think you made it clearer than my wife has ever done so for me yet we can forget when this turn dark. That is all.

I am sure Humbled himself is learning a lesson as he may just have hit rock bottom from the sounds of things. It sucks being at rock bottom but rest assured, your and my wife's rock bottom is a lot further down hellward than mine was.

All he wants is to know you care, so keep letting him know in whichever way you can muster right now. I did not need to HEAR my wife say she loved me, fat hope in heck that was going to happen but I just wanted to SEE that she still somehow cared. Then beyond the screaming, yelling and arguing, I coudl look through it all and hold onto the hard to see truth that she still cares.

Humbled I mean this with love brother, LOOK AND SEE."
posted at 12:54:47 on December 15, 2010 by ruggaexpat
My Experience!    
"Humbled, There was a time I asked my husband to leave. It was hard to do but that is what I was hearing from my Heavenly Father? What? Yes, that is what I was hearing. I kept pushing it back, thinking that would make things worse. I finally listened, and asked him to leave. It was only for a few days. He did asked to come back after the 1st day, I said no. The amazing thing for me was that I felt Peace! Confirmation that I was doing what my Heavenly Father wanted. Not what the co-addict in me wanted.

My Husbands reaction was similar to yours. Despair and loss of Hope and, "We are not going to make it!"........ I knew we were going to make it, but he did not. I invited him back because I had a medical treatment and I needed his assistance. He took care of me, loved me, served me. The Lord had a plan, sometimes we just have to get out of his way and let it happen. Trust Him!

Use this time to work on your spirituality. Download the wives manual and study it! I am sure she has read a library full of books about SA. This will help your emotional maturity. Then go for a RUN!
This is the missionary in me now because you are alone: And I believe most people come here looking for help not just a place to blow off steam.

During the recovery process, whether it is for alcohol, drugs, sex or food, H.A.L.T. has been used in support group settings to stand for Hungry, Angry, Lonely and Tired. These are important things to avoid for the recovering sex addict as well. Simply put, keep yourself eating
regularly and properly. Do not allow yourself to get too hungry, which may make your more susceptible to less logical thinking. Some researchers believe eating certain foods can help you in recovery. A book that addresses this aspect of recovery is Help Yourself, by Joel Robertson and published by Thomas Nelson Publishing.

Anger can sneak up on you quickly and put you in an emotional state of “I’ll show you.” You could begin to rationalize why it might be okay to act out. Some sex addicts have a whole system where they purposely start a fight with their wife, leave, act out and come back later,
justifying their acting-out behavior, because they were “Angry.” Anger can be an important piece of managing your recovery.

Lonely is a difficult feeling for the sex addict to handle. Feeling alone can make the sex addict vulnerable and create a desire to medicate by acting out. When you get lonely, it may be helpful to have an action plan or an “I-will-do” list available in your wallet. Some other suggestions
are listed below.
1. Go to a public place, such as a mall, restaurant, etc.
2. Call someone in the program.
3. Plan ahead to avoid your alone time gaps, such as weekends or when your wife
may be out of town.
4. Exercise.
5. Help someone else with a project.
6. Go to a meeting, church or other social gathering.
7. Pray.
8. Ask others what they do.
Being “Tired” in your busy, fast paced life is a familiar feeling. Tiredness can lower your resistance to the point of “who cares.” To recover, we need to stay alert. Our sex addiction is a default program that desires to be fully activated anytime it can find an outlet. To prevent tiredness, get regular sleep. If you need to rest here or there, do so if possible. List your action plan for the following:
Hungry -
Angry -
Lonely
Tired

Love and prayers to you!"
posted at 13:42:38 on December 15, 2010 by Hero
Oh Yes, Patience    
"Patience is a HUGE word in recovery. That is what I kept hearing from my Heavenly Father, so I did a scripture study...... PATIENCE..... AMAZING!"
posted at 13:59:12 on December 15, 2010 by Hero
Two thoughts    
"Rugga, Speak, and Angel thank you for your thoughts on Be Quiet. I understand it better now (assuming Rugga and Speak are right, when they haven't read any "Doug"). When the wife is in pain, don't tell her how good YOU are doing. When she is in pain and fighting, just listen and bite your tongue without defending yourself. And always validate her feelings; it's not about you. Those things make sense. Thanks.

HUMBLED, I couldn't help but fixate for a moment on your phrase, "It brings tears to my eyes just wishing I could be understood!" Stephen Covey came to my mind, "Seek first to understand, then to be understood." Have you truly, completely sought to understand your wife? Covey says you don't understand someone until you can state their position and their feelings to their satisfaction. Do you think you can describe to your wife exactly how she is feeling, what she is going through, and what she needs? Can you describe it to the point that she says, "Yes, that's it. You've got it!" If not, you have not yet understood, and you should do more research of how/what she is feeling. It may take a long time to understand her...and you should not expect to be understood until you understand. I know you keep saying you don't want this to be "about you," but is it? Make it about her again.

I hope you understand me and my intentions, Humbled--because I'm very hypocritically sharing a few thoughts without truly understanding you and your position. But just because I'm a hypocrite doesn't mean Stephen Covey's advice is bad."
posted at 20:50:08 on December 15, 2010 by BeClean
what's after humility?    
"Well...my beautiful wife and I separated a couple days ago. I have been having to live out of a hotel room. Not fun. My heart has been so broken. I thought I was humbled before...What comes after humility? I called her last night begging for her forgiveness. I pleaded with her today to allow me back in her life. She asked me to stay away. I don't know what to do! I'm so confused. I feel like I am to the point now of having to try to separate myself from these feelings. I fear that if I don't...I am going to do something really bad. I am so sick of this life. I can't believe I was so stupid to succumb to such an evil thing and throw away a perfect marriage and family. Now, I just hope someday my wife will be able to heal from my wrong doings. I guess it would probably help her to have me gone anyway...she's probably right."
posted at 12:19:11 on December 16, 2010 by humbled
From Mrs. Humbled    
"I guess I’ll come out of hiding. That was the very first time I went anonymous. I should have used a British accent or something. I hope I didn’t taint my husband’s post in anyway. Hi Rugga!

We have been separated for 2 nights. I miss his physical presence, my nights are cold and lonely. We have spoke on the phone…I see his number call and I love to talk to him.

He is at a very sad/beautiful point. He has said the most amazing things to me. And I appreciate everything he has said. What more important…I really believe everything he said. He told me he would support me through my healing. He has said this before, but this time was different. He really meant what he said.

I have made an appointment to see our counselor; we are working on getting my PTSD under control. I need to take back my life...and give a real wife to my husband. The appointment is for tomorrow; my husband said he is going to do everything in his power to be there for me.

Today I did one of the hardest things I have ever had to do. My sweet husband was begging/pleading to come home now. I asked that he please meet me at the counselor’s office tomorrow. I just need some time. I would disappoint my husband today. A few nights and a good cry has turned my husband into such a beautiful person. I am not there. I am lost, broken…confused. I’m thankful for the gift my husband gave to me by pouring his heart and soul to me. I don’t feel like much of a person right now, and I can’t give him what he deserves. I know what I want (my baby back), and I’m trying to get there. I really hope that my husband can be patient with me as I try to find myself. I hope and pray that tomorrow after the counselor my husband and I drive home together…and never be separated again. Tomorrow is going to hurt…I have some garbage to go through with the counselor. But I know that if my husband supports me through this process of finding myself, we can also find our way back to each other.

My husband is so sad right now. Please pray for him! Please help him if he asks for help.

Thank you to everyone for your support for him and me. You kind words and support mean so much!

I have to correct one thing my husband’s post…
My husband said, “We have had this conversation a lot that I wish she gave me half the support in real life that she gives the members on this site…She has just said that it is easier to give support to people that she doesn't love. That sounds bad...I don't mean it like it sounds. Well...I should have her explain”
He is right on some of that…it is easier to support someone that is not my husband through this. But when he said “people that she doesn’t love”….I’m going to get mushy here…but I love you all, when I have had nowhere to go I have come to you and you have been there for me. Thank you!!

FYI…I can go from Bad A to Big B, quicker than most. Unfortunately that really isn’t a gift…I need to work on that. But thanks for the complement Speak!

Hey Paul-
We talked about you last night. My husband envies your position. You are going to have disclosure…It will help you more than you know! Jan 7th right? I’m going to fast for you the fast Sunday before.

Thank you again…you are helping more than you know.

Mr. Humbled- Everything you told me, has helped…thank you!! Tomorrow is going to be hard with the counselor…but I am looking forward to a big fat hug from you! I miss you…I LOVE YOU!!"
posted at 12:53:10 on December 16, 2010 by summer
Humbled & Summer...    
"I knew it was you! ;)

You have been a great strength to me over the past several months Summer. And I am so grateful for your continued prayers and fasting. I have been and will continue to do the same for you.

Reading through this page, it is obvious that you and Humbled do love each other deeply. The devastation that this plague is causing is terrible... It hurts, like nothing else can, when you really start to recognize the amount of suffering individuals, families, and all of us together have to deal with. I can't say anything other than I'm sorry for my part in it.

You are without a doubt one of Heavenly Father's elect daughters. His prophets have promised that Christ can and will heal all of us who seek healing. Have faith in that.

Thank you again Humbled and Summer."
posted at 13:29:59 on December 16, 2010 by paul
Ha!    
"I had a hunch! I believe I once told you Summer I can smell my own kind (cool cats and bad A's...I too am a big B). I stand correct. Your spirit shines; even thru the anon post, pts and everything that goes with it. Really though it wasn't till after I posted that I started to speculate. I almost posted yesterday "Summer...do you have anything to do with this?" but I thought maybe that would be distracting.

Aaannnyway, I don't know guys...satans kicking your ass's sumpin fierce right now and I'm really sorry for that. But for what its worth my faith is becoming that satans antics will pale and seem silly at times by comparison to Gods design as it unfolds for you guys. He does have a design. Even with our pain. What an adventure. Good luck."
posted at 15:18:01 on December 16, 2010 by They speak
Hang in There    
"I know about feeling alone and struggling with depression. If you're not seeing a counselor and a doctor about meds, I highly recommend it. Congratulations though on staying sober through it all. That's not easy to do. Hang in there. It will get better. I know it seems like you'll always feel bad, but you won't. Keep doing your best with your wife. It will work out eventually."
posted at 00:02:27 on December 17, 2010 by dstanley
back together!!    
"Thank you everyone for all your heart felt comments this week. This has been a really hard week for both of us. Mrs Humbled had originally told me not to come home thursday night. I begged and begged to please come home because I missed her so much. (I know..pretty pathetic, but I really can't live without her!) She still said NO..."one more night." That night I spoke with her father, he even told me to let it go and stay away one more night. (I am VERY close with her father.) I had a weird feeling on my way to the hotel to call and just ask one more time. I figured...Nothing to lose right! Long story short...She told me to come home because she didn't like the feeling she had with me gone!!

I feel so blessed to have such a sweet wife who despite my shortcomings is still able to love me and have the desire to work it out. Thank Thank Thank you everyone for helping me get through such a hard week!! I truly don't think I could have done it without all of your help!!"
posted at 20:05:17 on December 17, 2010 by humbled
Yay Humbled and Summer!    
"I take it the counseling session went well then?

I will continue to pray for both of you! Good luck! And keep up the healing!"
posted at 20:52:41 on December 17, 2010 by paul
Buddy love her her way now    
"That is it.

Live every last day with her as if it is the last."
posted at 23:05:01 on December 17, 2010 by ruggaexpat
Mr. and Mrs Humbled!    
"Mr. Humbled, celebrate your Mrs. Humbled or beloved Sister, She is using every bit of courage and faith and strength and clinging to every once of hope that is available to her. I want to celebrate each of you! I wish I could tell the world of your courage in adversity. Your strength to stand up against the adversary, knowing you have the Savior at the helm. Your Faith that Light will dispel darkness and your Hope for All that our Heavenly Father has promised you and our family. "
posted at 00:17:21 on December 18, 2010 by Hero
Thanks again everyone!!    
"It seems so long ago. But this just barely happened. Since he has been home, things have been going really well…

Christmas was beautiful in our home. We worked very hard before hand to make this a relaxing day for our family. My husband’s gifts to me were unexpected and very sweet.

The counselor session was only for me…I am working through the PTSD crap. But my husband drove me and waited in the car until I was done. He has done this twice now...with NO complaints. Going to the counselor is no easy thing for me or my husband, I have to go to some ugly places to try to get better, and my husband feels such remorse for putting me in a situation where I have to “get better”. It’s going to be a long painful road, but it will be worth the end result.

As we look back at the conversations we had leading up to having him leave the house. There was a lot of miscommunication. I felt like I couldn’t have been more clear…and he feels the same about what he said. I think this is where we both need to take a step back and try hard to understand the others point of view…This is really important, as we learned the hard way how delicate our situation can be.

This website was an outlet for both of us during those hard moments. And so many people shared things that helped. Sometimes it’s nice to have someone look into your situation and tell you how you can help yourself. As my husband was asking to come home, and I was reluctant to be back together…I read what Speak said, “satans kicking you’re a**'s sumpin fierce right now and I'm really sorry for that.” I started to wonder if I was kickin’ my own a**. I was pretty sure Satan was thrilled my husband was out of the house, and that Heavenly Father was sad along with us. That was when I decided to tell Satan to shove it, and invited the hubby back.

Things are not perfect…But in the wise words of my husband on the day after he came home, “I found out I’m more miserable without you”. I have so much hope that one day our life will not have the word miserable in it at all. :)"
posted at 09:59:09 on December 27, 2010 by summer
Miraculous    
"That will be the word I hope will replace the other M word. Summer we pray for both of you. I see the faith that brings the hope that dispels the darkness."
posted at 01:24:07 on December 30, 2010 by Hero


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" Is it possible to reclaim a life that through reckless abandon has become so strewn with garbage that it appears that the person is unforgivable? Or what about the one who is making an honest effort but has fallen back into sin so many times that he feels that there is no possible way to break the seemingly endless pattern? Or what about the person who has changed his life but just can't forgive himself?The Atonement of Jesus Christ is available to each of us. His Atonement is infinite. It applies to everyone, even you. It can clean, reclaim, and sanctify even you. That is what infinite means—total, complete, all, forever. "

— Shayne M. Bowen

General Conference October 2006