12/13/2010 11:00:55 AM
Yesterday my husband and i met with the bishop for the first time in a year. I left feeling really angry. My husband has said that he felt like he needed to have his temple recommend taken away and i felt the same as he broken really serious covenants. But he never bore that to the bishop and i didn't want to say anything so he still has his recommend. I was really upset about it because i know that the temple is something that can help him but what does he have to work towards? How can anyone know that he has really repented? I was feeling really down about it because when i was in high school i was molested and before then i was going to the temple once a week to do baptisms and the bishop told me i couldn't go anymore for a long time just because i had put myself in that situation. To me putting myself in a situation and looking at lots of naked women are two opposite ends of the bad scale. I kind of argued with my husband a little bit about it. I told him i feel like he has cheated on me and just because he's not touching all these women it feels like he is. He just didn't understand he told me its not even close to the same thing because they won't excommunicate someone for porn but they will for the others. I wish he could see how i feel. Is it mean to feel like he needs it taken away? I know that bishop decifers by the spirit except he asked my husband how he felt and kind of put it on whether or not he feels worthy. Frustrating day.


my opionion    
"You will ALWAYS get excommunicated for porn.

If you let it go. That is because it is a progressive disease, you always need more and more until nothing helps but real contact. It will evolve into the worst possible scenario. If you are an addict and you say "not so with me, I'll never go that far", then denial has gotten the best of you and you are lying to yourself. I was rescued just before excommunication was necessary, and I was disfellowshipped. I know it would have kept getting worse."
posted at 12:06:32 on December 13, 2010 by lawrence
Some thoughts...    
"I'm sorry for the pain we addicts have inflicted on you. You have obviously overcome some great trials in your life and you will be blessed as you continue to do so.

My first thought was that, while he probably should have taken it away, your husband doesn't need the Bishop to take away his recommend. I have read many blogs where people have torn up their own recommends when they knew they were unworthy. I think this could serve as a powerful acknowledgement that things are not as they should be, and it gives you a new goal of becoming worthy of that recommend again. The built-in benefit is that it will require you to go back to your bishop and interview for a new one.

That being said, I can also see that a recommend (whether you are worthy of it or not) is a powerful link to the temple and to Heavenly Father. It could definitely be seen as irreverent or disrespectful to take matters into your own hands and destroy it. Proceed carefully.

Now that I haven't said anything helpful at all...

Differentiating between physically cheating on someone and pornography was difficult for me for years. I rationalized my behavior by saying that the Law of Chastity prohibits sexual RELATIONS with others. I fooled myself into believing that pornography did not constitute having a relationship with anyone, and therefore was not really cheating.

Even now, I have a hard time understanding that pornography can be on the same level as having a physical relationship with another person. A physical relationship requires so much more investment in terms of emotion, time, and effort. There is so much that has to happen to go from loyalty to physical adultery.

On the other hand, most of us addicts stumbled into pornography before we even knew it was wrong. I knew it wasn't something my mother would be happy about, but I knew so many adults with it, how could it be so wrong? Kind of like, I wasn't allowed to have a gun, but most of the adults I knew owned a few rifles.

While I still don't completely understand, I have come to know that I don't have to. I do accept that pornography IS breaking the law of chastity and the covenants I have made with The Lord and My Wife. It violates trust. The pain that I have caused to my wife and family is real. Reading the posts from our dear sisters on this site has shown me just how real and painful it is for you. I am forced to acknowledge that I am the one who has been blinded. I am the one who has been deceived. I am the one who lacks understanding. I am the one who has erred. I am the one who must change.

And I pray that I will soon begin to see and understand things as Elder Bednar says, "as they really are.""
posted at 12:50:38 on December 13, 2010 by paul
Your husband is breaking temple covenents    
"Plain and Simple.

For 23 years I heard this excuse by My Husband and nearly every Bishop we have had.

Your Husband is bringing evil into your home and into your heart. Remember Men protect what they love and if your Husband is still slipping and looking at porn and justifying his actions with such a lame excuse as the one above, let him live in the shadow of all of the sisters on this blog. He just has not been on the earth long enough and continued in his slips long enough to see the pain that this evil brings upon his family. If he is lucky, you will still be there. Your husband does not "get it". I don’t know your husband's history, or his heart, and I am not his Bishop, but for him to use that excuse is like laughing in God's Face. Your Husband and his Bishop just minimized your pain as well as God's laws. Ya know, a little sin here and there. God will just lash us with a wet noodle...All is well.........

When your husband is looking at 100s or 1000s of naked women and masturbating to their image. Imagining himself with them, I don't care how much sugar he wants to pour on it, it is still crap. When covenants are made in the temple of our God, I believe He has made very clear what is and is not considered breaking covenants. God will not be mocked!!!!

He is lying to himself and minimizing the evil and pain he has brought into your life. Your Bishop may have his reasons, and he is accountable for them.

Pornography brings EVIL SPRITS into to the home of the person who partakes of it. Make no mistakes, the person who is taking in the porn is participating in the Satanic Realm and those EVIL SPIRITS will reside in your home until your husband completely forsakes it, repents of it. and changes his heart. Just as everyone on the boat with Nephi was affected because of Lamen's and Lemuel's choices, so are we effected when the Priesthod leader in our home partakes of "just a little evil"

Your husband is a holder of Holy Priesthood of God and it is his responsibility to invite the spirit of the Lord into your home, not the spirit of Satan. Any man that justifies this evil is lying to himself and will bring upon himself the judgment of God.

I am so serious about what I am saying here because this justification has hurt my family in unspeakable ways.

I would love to talk about the Atonement of Christ and his His impact on our lives, but that is another post for another time. , The effect of the Atonement comes after the sin is forsaken with a broken heart and a contrite spirit.

If I were you, I would pray about revisiting your Bishop (alone this time) and share your true feelings about your earlier conversation with your husband. He might react differently if he has all of he facts. The Bishop can only go on the facts at hand. Your husband tells you one thing and the Bishop another. The Bishop does not read minds.

It is not about feeling worthy to have your temple recommend. It is about being clean to enter the Lord's house. Lots of people feel worthy, but there are a few requirements that must be fulfilled first.

I apologize for the tone of this post. My life has changed so much over the years as I have been learning about personal healing for me and taking it into my life. But, I will forever be filled with sorrow and anger when I hear of justification of evil. The truth is the truth, even if you don't want to hear it!!!

Stick with your personal healing and stay close to the Lord. As you do this, you will know truth even when everyone around you is minimizing.

posted at 19:15:36 on December 13, 2010 by angelmom
just to clarify...    
"My post was not meant to minimize or justify anything in any way. I am coming to a realization of the depravity of my sins and hope to continue on this path into the light. I cannot express the degree of sorrow I feel for all that has been lost and the pain I have caused. One day ccb, your husband will realize that too."
posted at 20:47:38 on December 13, 2010 by paul
I must speak up... anonymously    
""The effect of the Atonement comes after the sin is forsaken with a broken heart and a contrite spirit."

Couldn't disagree with Angelmom on this point more...

Of the little I know of the atonement - I do know that it is for sinners and saints at all stages of their spiritual path.

The atonement is working the entire time (not after something) ... some of the most holy, sacred moments in my life.. have been with simple souls who simply are stumbing along lifes path. Come to think of it.. I would rather spend a tuesday night with 10 souls trying to repent.. than 10 souls in the temple who think they need no repentance.

The Atonement (in my opinion) is all about the grace (ennabling power) mercy and cleansing.

not shaming, condemning & a reward for performance."
posted at 22:39:54 on December 13, 2010 by Anonymous
Love of God and the Atonement of Christ    
"What you are defining as the Atonement in your post, is really the Love of God and Love of Christ. He loves all of us equally all of the time. But, the Atonement is different than the love he has for us. and when you truly receive it, you know it. The Atonement of Christ is his blood covering our sins and pain. Feeling bad, even really bad about breaking Temple Covenants and retuning to evil is not truly coming to Christ, and therefore not accepting the Gift he gave us.

It is not Christ that separates us from his Gift. It is our sins and unwillingness to forsake them, or willingness to justify them, that keeps us from him.

God is a loving God. However he is not a tolerant God. In our own minds the Atonement of Christ can be whatever we want to make it, but that does not change fact. Our Savior suffered and died for our sins. He bought us with a price. In some belief systems, all that is required is to "be saved", and it is all covered all of the time. Our belief in the true and living Gospel does not work that way.

I never meant nor did I ever believe that we have to be perfect or have no need of repentance in our lives. I am on my step 4 and continuing to work through my life and repentance process. I believe that the 12 step process is a pathway to the Atonement and that all people in one form or another will need to pass through them. Only God knows where we are in that process and only he can judge us individually.

What I was commenting on was justification of the breaking of Temple Covenants and calling it a lesser sin. That is a lie any way you slice it, and if someone has been to the Temple and taken upon themselves those covenants, they know what those covenants mean.

Shaming and condemning is wrong and that was not what I was doing. I was pointing out the truth of the situation and like it or not, the truth is still the truth.

Anon, I don't know who you are and I am sure you are a good person. God loves you the same that he loves me. He loves the people inside or outside of the Temple the same. He loves the people in prison the same he loves the prophet of the church. His love is the same yesterday, today and forever. But that love by definition of the Laws and Boundaries he has set does not stop each of us from condemning ourselves when we break and justify his most sacred laws. Else why would he even have them?

What I am saying is that love of God and the Atonement of Christ are two different things.

Please read:
Mosiah 3:19 ~
Moroni 7:12-14~

This is not about self righteousness in any form, it is about truth. I have become very honest with myself and so has my husband. It has been some of the most painful, yet beautiful experiences of our many years together.

My his truth be with you the Christmas season,

Angel "
posted at 23:54:56 on December 13, 2010 by angelmom
"I think you're position is understandable. I don't know the exact answer as far as the two (porn and adultery) being descrete. I think few do. I think the Savoir put it best. But to validate you with my own experience i've seen both sides of the fence and I can honestly honestly say, though it sounds crazy and counter intuitive, that even the real thing did not so damage my mind and my spirit as looking at pornography. I wasn't looking at porn for awhile when the adultery occurred...but when I returned to could feel and knew from my own experience that "whoso ever looketh upon a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery in his heart" and that it destroys as readily and began destroying me from the inside out with avengeance! Adultery never felt so empty! Adultery never felt so paltry! Adultery never felt so dark (i know it sound as weird to say as it probably is to read)! Adultery never felt pornography. Now some may say "easy there tiger adultery is worse"...yeah duh, but i've done both and I don't need to appeal to books or authority or culture or rational to tell you I was sore amazed to find that the evil that penetrated my heart mind and soul when I started looking at pornography again felt just as (more!) deadining as any adultery i'd ever committed. "
posted at 01:52:57 on December 14, 2010 by They speak
"In some belief systems, all that is required is to "be saved", and it is all covered all of the time. Our belief in the true and living Gospel does not work that way."

How do you mean?"
posted at 02:17:29 on December 14, 2010 by They speak
Trust the bishop.    
"The church has a reason for not defining exactly which punishments for which situations. From the pamphlet, Let Virtue Garnish Thy Thoughts, published by the First Presidency,

"If your friend or family member speaks to a bishop and the bishop does not impose a visible or obvious punishment, you may feel as though the problem is not being taken seriously. Recognize that a bishop is to rely on the Spirit to determine what will best help each individual."
If he doesn't know everything, by all means tell him. He may not be able to read minds, but he has the gift of discernment. When I went to my bishop for the first time with porn, I said nothing to him. Nobody knew anything. I just sat there, starting to cry. He started the conversation by saying, "so Loren, are you having a little problem with pornography?"

They are not infallible, but we must love and trust our bishops.

I also have some comments about the atonement, but after writing them, I see that they belong in their own blog."
posted at 11:47:47 on December 14, 2010 by lawrence
"whoso ever looketh upon a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery in his heart"    
"Speak, Thank you for your frank comments.

This is exactly how the spouses feel. They have been cheated on. Their covenants have been broken along with their hearts. When this immoral behavior is not taken as seriously by their Priesthood leaders as the scriptures teach. This inflicts more pain. No validation! It makes her question her beliefs, her covenants, her understanding of the Gospel, the Priesthood, on top of all the issues she is questioning about herself, her sexuality, her looks, her desirability, who she is married to????. Is she the crazy one?

Other than this the other most damaging statement to a spouse by a Priesthood leader is, "Are you meeting his needs.". I wanted to scream!!! "Quite frankly I am more than he can handle!"...... sorry, feeling a little feisty today.

I copied your post and it is going on the front of the letter to the Bishops that I will be distributing. You validated scripture, not that they need validating.

Love to all of you!"
posted at 18:14:30 on December 14, 2010 by Hero
"You are distributing a letter to Bishops, Hero? With They Speak's comments?"
posted at 23:06:56 on December 14, 2010 by BeClean
"As if that's not the worlds most hilarious irony!

I was wondering the same thing. Not that i'd care. Hero can have copy rights to anything she wants of mine. Provided there is a disclaimer "the opinions etc. here expressed are from a crazy person and do not necessarily represent the populous consisting of those with complete mental faculties or its management" Just one brotha's experience."
posted at 23:28:16 on December 14, 2010 by They speak
Speaks comments!    
"Would you not call him qualified to speak on this subject? I believe the testimony of one who has walked that path. Especially when the testimony is exactly what is described as consequences in the scriptures. Do not be so quick with that copy right. You have written some recovery gems. There is name of your new book. Speaks Recovery Gems! But then we could get bashed for commenting on what Speak says......:-)
I will add the disclaimer! "Just one brothers experience." Truth is truth!"
posted at 02:07:54 on December 15, 2010 by Hero
Be Careful    
"Some bishops are boneheads, true. I have one small issue with my bishop where he isn't handling a certain thing with regard to church discipline the way many other bishops do. The Lord has guided me to obey and meticulously do it my bishop's way. (Whether it be from my mouth or the mouth of my servants, it is the same) I think through what if I raised a stink, and the Savior Himself came down to settle the issue for us. Whose side would He pick? I know He would pick the bishop because he acts as an agent of the Savior when he is our judge. We won't have perfect constancy from ward to ward not because bishops don't understand this problem or because there isn't proper standardization in the church. Christ has DELIBERATELY given tremendous leeway in handling matters of repentance. The bishops rely on revelation for our specific cases. They are far from perfect men, but they are the Lord's anointed. I don't like to hear evil speaking of any kind against them. I know of so many who have given up their own blessings because of being offended by a bishop or other leader.

Are you distributing the letter to bishops in your stake? Or is it within your area of calling as a missionary? Shouldn't you go through your own leaders? This discussion of the difference between adultery and porn use is getting close to preoccupation with unworthy behavior, this case someone else's behavior, but as President Packard says, it can lead to unworthy behavior (in this case is will end up being on the part of the preoccupied individual and the unworthy behavior won’t be directly the one in the preoccupation question).
I love you.
posted at 09:22:01 on December 15, 2010 by lawrence
She has done this before    
"I believe Hero has done this kind of thing in the past as the ladership is asking for this informaton.

I could have been damaged some of my bishops poor advice and minimization of my feelings regarding my husand's addiction. Most, not all women I meet with addicted spouses have experienced what I have in one form or another. Burying my head in the sand on this issue has not helped.

I have forgiven them long ago, but aknowledging truth and fact does not rise to the level of speaking evil of the Lord's anointed. If the bishop say's or does something we have the right and obligation to question. And a humble man of god will welcome that questioning.

The in's and out's of what is and what is not sexual relations? I guess that depends on what the meaning of the word "is " is. get it?.

God make's it clear. The Bishop is not the mind reader in Israel, he is the judge and he is accountable to follow the Lord, just as we are accountable to do the same. Pray for your Bishops. They have a tough job. Especially new Bishops who are still testing the waters looking for just the right spot to settle into. Not an easy thing to do.

posted at 10:06:35 on December 15, 2010 by Anonymous
I agree!    
"I need to clarify if my remarks in anyway gave the impression of evil speaking of the Lords Anointed. I love my Bishop and my Stake President. I honor their position and calling. I know my Bishop is the Judge in Israel. I pray for him and his counselors to hear the Lords voice and to carry it out. My Stake President is my spiritual leader and I cling to his counsel. I also know the Savior admonished us that we must forgive all, and that He will forgive whom he chooses. I have complete confidence in the mantle of authority given to our Priesthood leaders.

I am a missionary in the ARP program for Spouses whose husbands or loved ones have sexual addiction. This is a new program in our area. I speak to Bishops and Auxiliary leaders to inform them about this program and the reason it is important for the loved one who find herself and himself in some instances confronted with a spouse who has a sexual addiction. How it is important for leaders to be aware of the loved ones.

My job is to inform only. To inform about the program and help them understand what the spouses, mostly women are feeling and dealing with. How this program helps the spouses heal utilizing the Atonement and our Savior Jesus Christ. That the program is for the spouses healing. How this program has helped save marriages, and families. How those who complete the program are then ready to reach out and help others.

Speaks statement as I said explains exactly how the spouses feel about pornography addiction. How they understand the scriptures. I give the Bishops information that they may or may not read. The Dear Bishop letter written by Phil Harrison along with information on recovery material and statistics, blockers..... I am compiling quotes from Sisters who love and honor their Bishop but wish he would have been more sensitive to her situation. He did the best he knew how. I know many of these dear men have never had experience with SA. I know they are now bombarded with members who are struggling. So my job is just to inform and pray that when they have a couple sitting in their office that they will remember this program and suggest that both the husband and wife attend. That is where we as missionaries see real progress and quickly within a marriage and individually. "
posted at 10:37:38 on December 15, 2010 by hero
"Good job!"
posted at 13:50:45 on December 15, 2010 by Anonymous
I don't think it's mean    
"I hope my ex has finally been excommunicated. I don't think he'll ever change until he is.

I just want to say that it isn't such a far leap from porn and masturbation to physical relations with another person. It scared me how easy it was for me to get involved with someone I didn't even know. I ended up doing multiple things I thought I'd never do. Addiction will do that to you if you let it."
posted at 23:34:37 on December 16, 2010 by dstanley
I do not care about    
"the disctinction, I felt and still feel so cheated upon by what he did. For me he slept and desire to sleep with a million women and as he is the cheapest man and the laziest one I know, porn was just the easy way, the no hassle way, the more secretive, the more justifiable way and easiest way to sleep with as many women and look to as many women as possible!!!!! I would have prefer him to have one good affair, at least when it was over, I'd know that he was no longer cheating, his interest would have been with one. With porn, his interest is with every women walking between ages 15 and 50 (I would guess) and even church is not a safe place for our marriage, he can teach right there and then. I hate that he is a porn addict and I almost wish he would have had a real affair instead."
posted at 15:57:24 on December 17, 2010 by crushed
Thank you Crushed...    
"I started writing a comment, but I cannot say what I feel without sounding like an argument or justification. My addict mind is probably (definitely) still not seeing things as they really are.

All I will say is thank you for all you have shared and for being who you are. Thank you for helping me see the reality of what we have done. I'm so sorry for the pain we addicts cause."
posted at 17:43:34 on December 17, 2010 by paul
I'd prefer porn    
"I believe my ex had someone over for sex before I kicked him out. That hurts me more than the pictures he was looking at (not that either one is good). Having an affair also brings with it the risk of diseases. I should probably get tested. I know that it is different for everyone, but for me, porn was never about wanting someone else, although I also wasn't using it when I was married except for with my first husband who was encouraging it. I know that it is so hard with sexual addictions, but they really aren't about not being interested in your spouse any more than alcohol or drug addictions are. It's just the medium that has been chosen to use to hide from things and cope. I don't really want a cheap one night stand with a guy it's just one of the ways I coped with life and where my addiction took me. I just hope that all of you wives will get to where you can see that this addiction isn't about you. You all seem like really great people and I think that when your spouses get out of their addiction that you'll see their love for you."
posted at 17:51:28 on December 17, 2010 by dstanley
thats it    
"That is pretty close to what I wanted to say dstanley, thank you too. (I'm always thanking people on this site.) I just can never tell whether my feelings are what they should be or they are what my addiction has taught me. But you said what I think I feel... does that make sense?"
posted at 18:51:44 on December 17, 2010 by paul
It makes sense    
"Glad I could help."
posted at 22:47:00 on December 17, 2010 by dstanley
No matter how much I know, it sill hurts    
"It was someone else's body he was looking at, someone else's body he was fixating on, someone's else body that he was fantasizing about.... It was not me he was thinking about, it was not my body that he wanted, it was not me he was day dreaming about but someone else.... I know that for an addict, it was just another body... for me, it was the body of another women and not myne where it should have only be me!!! Me in his mind and me in his heart, his mind and thoughts were so full of other women.... and that hurts no matter how much I know about the sickness, it still hurts... I know I have to detach some more and let go and let god... some days are better than others... I know ultimately it was not about me, I just wished he had taken cocaine, or something.. as his drugs and not other women's body, including friend's, relatives, women at work, neighbours, the mall, church.... I feel like it can be everywhere except in the temple...can not wait to be completely healed
Ps. Paul tell your wife, so she can start her road to recovery, you can do it, I know you can, no matter how dark it is, it is so much better to know...:)"
posted at 21:15:13 on December 18, 2010 by crushed
Crushed, Now you know    
"in the least degree how God feels when we (all of us) ANY way. We focus on other Gods, other thoughts, ourselves, etc., when we SHOULD be focusing on Him. We should put Him first and think only of Him, but we go running after other Gods and other selfish desires. We should do what He asks us to do, but we choose to do what We want to do or what Lucifer inspires us to do. It's no wonder God likens our sin to "whoring after other Gods," and it's no wonder God calls himself a "jealous God." Your feelings are justified, as I think they are exactly the way God feels about each one of us whenever we do ANYTHING wrong.

And yet, amazingly, He can still forgive us and choose to die for us. That is a selfish, charitable God worthy of our love, affection, and praise!"
posted at 13:00:34 on December 19, 2010 by beclean
Be clean I know you are always    
"meaning so well ... and you hint that we should be like God and be all forgiving and all charitable and all loving no matter what anyone has done to us. But we poor wives have human breakable and unforgiving hearts... What makes it worst is that we need so much love and patient and kindness and understanding, it is hard when we are constantly hurt... My husband, I think suffers from an emotionnal problem, that he withhold love. It is not that he say he does not love, it is that I think as a result of his brain and perceptions being shaped by his addiction and his parents divore, he only knows two ways of treating a women, as a mother or as a whore. He says he married me because I was strong and capable. But he does not himself have a need for affection and never needs it ( he gets his needs met trough sex, right). So it is not natural for him to give affection and he does not think about giving affection or empathising. And I can not but feel so hurt all the time by our painful interractions. I feel my husband is very insensitive to my feelings most of the time and that is on top of the pornography he had done. How long dear Beclean, do you think a women should carry on being hurt?? Do you think the Lord expects her to forgive everyday, everytime and to be all loving all the time to an extremely insensitive and sometimes selfish man? Do you think the Lord expects women to endure the continuous pain for always???
I do not think so, I do not think the Lord wants us women to sit and endure the pain inflicted upon us patiently and lovingly, I know the Lord wants us to take a stand and loves ourselves and demand to be treated better. Dear Beclean, I am an extremely vulnerable women who has let for years others and especially my husband walk all over me and abuse me and neglect me. I am worth so much more than that, it is not about not forgiving it is about taking value in myself and being ready to say ENOUGH is enough!!!! Forgiving does not mean it has to be done right away, anger is very justified and even necessary in this situation. The Lord expects us to forgive, but not endure and to let emotionnal abuse carry on by extremely selfish man, he expects me to believe in the daughter he values and loves and to defend her and to protect her too.
But, I know I need to detach, and things are much easier for me, still our interractions still hurt me at times, like this weekend, we were getting ready to go to a party, and I had spent time on my hair and new outfit. Not only did he not notice anything, but he even went on being critical about the way I was wearing my new clothes.... He knows how very insecure I feel about my looks...
What can I do so that things like that do not hurt me anymore?"
posted at 21:16:39 on December 19, 2010 by crushed
"You don't have to put up with abuse. If your husband is emotionally abusive it isn't about you changing to not be hurt by it anymore. You and your husband need some professional help and you need to not allow him to abuse you. My ex was emotionally abusive. He refused to listen to our counselor or change anything so I kicked him out. I now have a restraining order against him. A professional can help you make a rational decision instead of one based on emotions. I was willing to give him a chance to change things, but when he wasn't willing to change it was time to do what was best for myself and my kids. I couldn't sit around and let us all get hurt waiting for him to maybe someday decide he needs help and needs to change (he still hasn't figured that out over a year later). We do need to be forgiving, but that doesn't mean being doormats. I know it's a fine line sometimes. Crushed, I hope you'll get some help standing up for what you deserve. You are worth alot, and I'm sure you looked great for the party."
posted at 00:38:21 on December 20, 2010 by dstanley
"We hear much about boundaries on this blog and it was not until I set a few of them when I learned how protective boundaries can be.

You are a beautiful daughter of God and your husband is selfish. Okay he has divrce and mommy issues, who doesn't? That is no excuse to mistreat his wife and children. Remember he is supposed to be the leader in your home.

BeClean said that God is angry or hurt about ANYTHING we do to sin is not exactly true. Let's say that you yell at the kids. It's not nice to do that and you should repent and look to the Lord for help overcoming the yelling. Now Let's say that your husband looks at porn and masterbates or sleeps with a hooker. According to my understanding that is a more serious offense. So, let's not put all sins in the same box, because that sounds like an addict telling a loved one that she is just the same as her selfish husband, and that is a big NoNo.

It looks like your need boundaries. Decide what works for you and which lines he cannot cross. You have been doing so well and if he is not working on recovery, you may need to rethink what you will or will not allow. As always pray to know the answers. Our advice is only that of men and women. But God will lead you where you need to be. Be strong and have courage so you can do what is required.

I see addicts calling wives to repentence sometimes, saying they need to do this and that (more sex, etc), and then they will be better husbands. I also see blame on wives. These men, if they hold the Preisthood promise God they will lead and follow His commandments. The women promise to follow her husband if he obeys the Lord. Looks to me like the male addicts need to stop blaming wives and expecting wives to step up. Their needs (the guys) will be met if they follow Him. If he leads in the Lord, his wife will follow, not the other way around.
Set the rules that keep you safe and emotionally. Do it when you are ready because you will need to follow through. He will either understand and repent of his unrighteous treatment, or he will be learn the hard way. Be strong in God and he will help you. I hope you will realize Crushed, that you are beautiful just the way God made you. "
posted at 01:32:02 on December 20, 2010 by Anonymous
Question for you wives    
"I asked/wondered this on here years ago. Why is it always up to you guys (gals) to decide how and when forgiveness happens; or the responsibility of "working things out" seems poned off on you guys while we stereotypically just sit around hoping?

Its not easy to read posts like this and not ask how am I doing my wife a favor by dragging this out? How would letting her go be a diservice in the long run? Give her an opportunity to move on and marry someone who won't cause her this amount of misery. Release me from a responsiblity I feel destine to continue to fail with."
posted at 02:37:17 on December 20, 2010 by cool hand luke
"I don't know much about you or your situation, so please do not take this for more than its worth, but it sounds like your reading something wrong here.

I'm sure the wives who have been hurt by their husbands want nothing more than to heal, and would heal now if that were an option. But healing takes time, that is all there is to it. If your wife has told you she wants to go, then that is her choice. If you honestly do not feel like there is anything worth fighting for, then you maybe should let her go.

Otherwise, if she wants to make it work, then it sounds like you are the one looking for an excuse to leave. Any logic you find supporting your decision to be "...released from responsibility..." is nothing but just that... an excuse. Please don't take lightly the commitment you have made in marriage. That was a choice that you made, and God will hold you accountable for throwing it away. Make no mistake, it is most often the addict who is responsible for degraded feelings of love and value in the marriage, but if BOTH partners are willing to work on it, forgiveness can come, and love can return.

Crushed, I agree with what has been said. You are a beautiful daughter of God. You have infinite worth, and your husband should recognize that."
posted at 10:02:55 on December 20, 2010 by paul
"Luke- God decides when forgiveness happens, not us. Usually looking at porn is a one time thing with an apology and then it is over. When left unrecovered wives are re-offended over and over again.

The responsibility does lie with the guys because you are commanded to lead your wife in the Lord and then she follows. There is a spiritual disconect when the husand breaks covenants.

It is not supposed to be easy. You sinned and yes, it must be brought out in order to repent. it is required of the lord. All broken things can be mended with proper repentence.

If you do not love your wife more than you love your sins and your selfish desires, by all means do let her go. You do not deserve her and she can do much better."
posted at 10:05:02 on December 20, 2010 by Anonymous
"Luke- God decides when forgiveness happens, not us. Usually looking at porn is a one time thing with an apology and then it is over. When left unrecovered wives are re-offended over and over again.

The responsibility does lie with the guys because you are commanded to lead your wife in the Lord and then she follows. There is a spiritual disconect when the husand breaks covenants.

It is not supposed to be easy. You sinned and yes, it must be brought out in order to repent. it is required of the lord. All broken things can be mended with proper repentence.

If you do not love your wife more than you love your sins and your selfish desires, by all means do let her go. You do not deserve her and she can do much better."
posted at 12:49:23 on December 20, 2010 by Anonymous

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"We cannot keep one foot in the Church and one foot in the world. One reason is the world and the Church are rapidly diverging. We will lose our balance.We know that "no man can serve two masters." Some, I fear, are attempting to do what President Marion G. Romney described as trying to "serve the Lord without offending the devil." "

— Larry W. Gibbons

General Conference October 2006